[HPforGrownups] Robes and other Clothing

[GulPlum]

No: HPFGUIDX 45729

At 04:53 24/10/02 +0000, Steve wrote:

>I think this type of choir/graduation robe was not that uncommon in
>higher UK private schools in the not too distant past. Worn mostly, I
>assume, as a matter of tradition, much like UK judges and members of
>Parliment (do they still dress like that in British Parliment?).

Err... Let's get a few things, including terminology, straight. In 
Parliament, the only people who routinely wear anything strange are the 
Speaker of the House of Commons, who wears a black gown over a suit (or, in 
the case of the previous Speaker who was the first woman to hold the post, 
a dress), and a clerical collar instead of a tie; the Speaker of the House 
of Lords who wears full Judge's garb (he is, after all, not only a judge, 
but the highest judge in the land!) which include a black robe, a red gown 
and a judge's long white wig. Clerks in both houses wear black judicial 
gowns over modern clothes. There are a few characters (e.g. Black Rod) who 
make appearances at ceremonial occasions and are dressed in more or less 
outlandish fashion, but they're not there as a matter of course.

In courts, barristers wear black gowns and white wigs. In lower courts, 
most of the time judges wear standard suits, as do the lawyers. In higher 
courts, full Judges' regalia come into play, as per the Lord Chancellor's 
garb when sitting as Speaker of the House of Lords.

Most British Public Schools have worn reasonably contemporary clothing for 
many generations. True, some of them have uniforms which are a bit strange, 
but they don't include robes. One famous London Prep School (British 
meaning, not American, i.e. kids up to the age of about 12) has a uniform 
which is a  distasteful (to my eyes) combination of pink, orange and maroon 
which includes pantaloons and knee-length socks.

Of senior Public Schools, Eton has the most distinctive uniform, which 
consists of morning suits (i.e. black tail coats over white shirts and bow 
ties and waistcoats). AFAIK choir robes have never been worn as a matter of 
course, but only by choristers when in "chorister mode".

>I just can't picture any modern kid muggle (especially) or magic
>wearing Dumbledore/Merlin robes on a daily basis. You simply aren't
>going to get a few hundred pre-teen and teenage boys to go around all
>day in dresses; wizards or no wizards.

<snip historical research>

Let's not get meta-textual here. :-) In the four books to date, there is no 
mention whatsoever of kids at Hogwarts wearing "trousers" (other than 
pyjamas) but "robes" are mentioned on almost every second page. Outlandish 
or unlikely as it may be, kids at Hogwarts are invariably dressed in 
"robes", and occasionally "cloaks". Specifically, there are several 
instances of Harry taking off his "robes" and climbing into bed. There is 
no mention of his ever removing anything else (just for the sake of 
completeness, school uniforms are never, ever, referred to as "robes" in 
contemporary English, and AFAIK never have been).

Incidentally, JKR isn't entirely consistent, as sometimes it's "robes" and 
sometimes it's "robe"; I can't make out any reason from the context why she 
would jump from plural to singular.

When given his dress robes, Ron insists that he'd rather go starkers, which 
indicates that he's not expected to have much on beneath the robe. 
Furthermore, his dress robe has got "lace cuffs". This is an item of 
clothing with sleeves; it is not some kind of cloak.

Overall, then, I expect Hogwarts "robes" to be something akin to 
choristers' robes, and absolutely, definitely, not the tasteful grey 
trouser uniforms shown in TMTSNBNs.

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, whose bees are really buzzing in his bonnet now and 
couldn't leave home without commenting. :-)