Robes and other Clothing

[Melody]

No: HPFGUIDX 45739

I feel greatly compelled to enter this discussion since I currently
working to receive a master's in historic costume.  Unfortunately,
though, my specialty is 19th century, but I still have taken classes
on the rest and have tons of books on the subjects.  Which now
speaking of them, I have tried to find some shred of evidence on the
history of witch's traditional clothing and found none.  Hmmm, seems
academia does not like to record rumored and possible fictional
costumes.  Oh well.  I shall try my best with what I have.


Eloise wrote:
>>Otherwise, anything approaching the everyday wearing of *gowns* is,
I *think*  (although I'm sure someone out there will correct me!)
confined to a handful of universities. At Oxford and Cambridge they
are (or at least were) required when taking exams and for formal halls
(dinners) and students at St Andrews also wear gowns, although in
their case, red ones.<<

As far as I know those are the only two universities that do not wear
academic gowns just for graduation, so I think you are right.
Besides, if the Potter robes are based on academic robes, then Oxford
and Cambridge are the two universities noted to be where the tradition
started.

Around the thirteenth century, certain professions like doctors and
universities wanted to distinguish themselves from regular citizens.
The universities wrote to Rome, they are Church institutions after
all, and asked permission to "fix" their own costume, which were
modeled after the religious habits.  By this act, the incoming
Bachelors wore "full, sleeveless, entirely closed capes".  Over the
gown, the students were allowed to wear capes with hood.
[Quotes and facts taken from:
  Boucher, Francois.  _20,000_Years_of_Fashion_]

Given that the costume is based on a religious view of simplicity of
form, it can reasonably be assumed that they are wearing little else
under those robes.  Besides, hygiene and cleanliness, by our
standards, was unheard of then.  We also have painting and pictures
depicting people wearing gowns with nothing underneath.  Maybe out of
poverty, maybe out of apathy.  Not sure really.

Our modern idea of an academic gown is a bit tainted because of
graduation ceremonies and the inner desire for us to wear clothes
underneath them.  Given that the Potter kids are modern in their views
of modesty, by wearing muggle clothes when not in class, I think it is
safe to say they are wearing something under those robes.  If not then
quidditch adds a new level of thrill for the students.  Besides, Harry
is said to be wearing a t-shirt under his quidditch robes in PoA, Ch
13.  He took off his wizard robes to put on the quidditch robes and
put his wand in the pocket.

As to whether older wizards and witches wear clothes under their
robes, well, that is actually addressed in GoF at the QuidCup.
Remember old Archie at the water tap?  He had on that long flowery
nightgown and refused to put on pants because, and I quote, "I like a
healthy breeze 'round my privates, thanks." (GoF, Ch 7)  Safe to say
he, at least, is not letting anything come between him and his wizard
robes.  [I still giggle along with Hermione there.  I could so see
grandpa wizard saying that. :) ]



Then Eloise rationally continued:
>>>But in the case of the Potterverse, JKR is surely just drawing on
the traditional picture of the robe-wearing witch or wizard (robe in
this sense being an over-the-head, dress-type garment). I'm not really
sure where this comes from, or how old the image is although I would
hazard that where wizards are concerned, it is to do with the exotic,
oriental garb adopted by stage magicians and the fact that witchcraft
implies ritual, which implies ritual-type garments. Where does the
pointy hat come from?<<<

Well I did a little on-line research since my costume library here
seems to have some holes, and this is what I came up with...

These two sites claim the pointed hat and color black originated:

http://mysticfire.freeyellow.com/facts.html
http://www.petzfamilyschool.com/hallhistorty.htm
"It is believed that witches wore black to be like the night.  The
cone shape of the witch's hat was believed to direct energy from
higher dimensions to her mind and down through her body."


Interesting.  Mystical.  Sounds like a story made up by Monty Python
villagers to me though.


Next, and only other site, I found that might shed some light was:

http://www.widdershins.org/vol6iss8/oestara01.07.html
"There is another, commonly held belief that the pointed hat
originated with another persecuted group in Europe, the Jews. While
Jews did wear pointed headgear, most scholars now believe these hats
were not a likely source for the witch's pointed hat. After all,
pointed hats were fairly common throughout the Middle Ages and
Renaissance."


Ok rule that out...


"This fact leads us to the source I find to be most believable, and
most mundane, for the Pointy Hat Look. During the late sixteenth and
early seventeenth centuries, commoners in Wales and England often wore
pointed hats. As fashions changed, the last to retain the old styles
were the rural and peasant folk, who were considered "backward" by
higher society and were usually the ones accused of heresy and
witchcraft. Much as we today have stereotypes of the sort of student
who might commit violence at a high school, so did the medieval people
have their ideas of what sort of person might be a witch."

"Along these lines, Gary Jensen, a professor of sociology at
Vanderbilt University, postulates a connection between the persecution
of Quakers in America and the stereotypical appearance of witches in
our folklore. Quakers did wear pointed hats, and the negative image of
witches wearing conical hats in America became common about the same
time anti-Quaker sentiment was at a peak. Quakers were thought by some
to consort with demons and practice black magic, things also
associated with the early American view of witches. Once again, an
easily recognized symbol of an oppressed minority may have become
generalized to a group equated with them."


So, the idea of pointed hats comes from old fashions still worn by
groups despite the new fashion trends.  Makes sense really.  Often
when someone makes them self distinguishable from the crowd, they are
associated and labeled accordingly.  Some rumor started long before
and was picked up again and again over time.  I know in the current
LoTR trilogy, the costume department did not want to put Gandalf in
the typical pointed hat, but finally settled to do so because they
thought the books originally helped to greatly propagate the imagery.

So, what can be said?  Basically that Hogwarts in a academic
institution, so it is possible that the robes are based after that
historic trend.  Or maybe, since even the graduated witch and wizards
wear robes, the idea is based on the historic rumors.  The gown in
question is a very basic garment that has been around ever since
civilization.  It essentially is a shift after all.

I will say that by giving the students robes, which cover the entire
body, JKR does allow for our little hero to hide the fact he is
wearing really baggy clothes.  We are given no reason to believe that
Harry is not still wearing Dudley's old clothes.  The only other
clothes we know him to have is the Weasley sweaters.  By giving his a
shapeless robe, JKR is removing his shame.  Had to sprinkle a bit of
meta-thinking for good measure anyway.  :)


Melody
Who should spend more time on her thesis than on Harry Potter, but
somehow does not find it as compelling