Was Lupin there when Lilly died?/Names

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 45834

Barb:
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> "Remus!" Pettigrew squeaked, turning to Lupin instead, writhing imploringly 
> in front of him.  "You don't believe this...wouldn't Sirius have told you 
> they'd changed the plan?"
> 
> "Not if he thought I was the spy, Peter," said Lupin.  "I assume that's why 
> you didn't tell me, Sirius?" he said casually over Pettigrew's head.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> While it is clear that Lupin meant that Sirius thought Lupin was the spy 
> back before the Potters were killed, it is unlikely that Lupin meant that 
> he thought Sirius was the spy at the same time, since he knew Sirius was 
> the Secret Keeper (this is the "change" that Peter was referring to).  

Eloise:
Well, yes. I see your objection. But he *could* still have suspected Sirius 
at the time.

Lupin was under the misapprehension that Sirius was the Secret Keeper. He 
knew of Dumbledore's concerns that there was a mole in the organisation, 
wondered about Sirius, but dismissed his supicions, after all, how could it 
be him? How could Sirius *possibly* betray his best friend? Only to be, as he 
thought, proved horribly wrong by events.
This would explain why he didn't *voice* his suspicions at the time, whilst 
making it very likely that he would carry a burden of guilt for not 
preventing their deaths later.

I think one of the tragic things about the situation before Voldemort's fall 
was that it was almost impossible to trust anyone. We're told what the 
atmosphere was like at the time. The situation was so bad that even three men 
who had trusted each other as completely as Sirius, Lupin and James could 
harbour suspicions about each other. Dumbledore suspected there was a spy in 
the organisation. So did Sirius. Therefore I suppose that Lupin must also 
have done so at the time. So who did he suspect?

The thing that I find odd if it refers only to his beliefs *after* the event 
is the use of the word 'spy'. In the context of James' and Lily's deaths, I 
would have thought something like 'betrayer' or even 'murderer' (referring as 
well to the Muggle deaths and Pettigrew's apparent death) might have come 
more readily to mind, rather than 'spy' which seems to me to refer more 
generally to the leaking of information prior to the event.

But I concede that your version is every bit as likely as mine. 


Barb again:
>Second, I hardly think Lupin would have felt at the fringes with three 
friends who >went out of their way to become Animagi and accompanied him 
during the full >moon.  If anything, he was the linch-pin of the group 
because of this.  James and >Sirius may have been the leaders, but without 
Lupin, they would probably not have >thought of becoming Animagi.  They were 
specifically looking for a way to spend the >full moon with him.  He was 
central to the group in a way that Peter never could be.

Eloise:
This is all objectively true.
But we experience things *subjectively* and it may not be the way that Lupin 
experienced it.
After all, we're told that it was Sirius and James who were the inseparable 
ones. In the overheard conversation in the Three Broomsticks, Lupin never 
gets a mention.
I don't find it at all hard to imagine that with the burden of his 
lycanthropy and the social exclusion he must have experienced before coming 
to Hogwarts, Lupin found it very difficult to believe he was entirely 
accepted by his friends.
And I hate to say it, <ducking brickbats> but he could almost just have been 
an *excuse* for the others to work on the dangerous and exciting project of 
becoming Animagi and of going off on their monthly adventures. Or he could 
have interpreted it that way, depending how secure he felt in his 
friendships.


Catlady:
>Kudos to Richard GulPlum for fighting the good fight for canonical 
>Hogwarts uniforms!

Seconded!

>Freya wrote:
>
<< But anyway I wonder why JKR has made some of the character names 
>>so obvious, like Hooch, Sprout, Albus... (Albus! He didn't always 
>>have white hair!). Like their names would be their destiny or 
>>something. Aaargh! I find that annoying. >>
>
>Is Hooch an obvious name? Please explain it to me. 
>
>"Albus" could be named not from his white hair but from his purity, 
>or after Albion (an old named for the island of Britain, based on 
>the sight of the "white cliffs of Dover".)

Eloise:
Well, I think the obvious, meaningful names (and I agree that though 
interpretations of Hooch have been offered, they're not *obvious*) are an 
aspect of JKR's genre soup and should be taken sometimes in satirical vein, 
sometimes just as the exuberance of a writer who likes playing with language. 
I think we get into terrible trouble if we insist on trying to find complete 
internal coherence in the Potterverse.

As for 'Albus', yes, I have wondered if it refers to Albion, the most ancient 
name of Britain, although the origin may go back further than the Roman 
identification of the White Cliffs. It may actually be an indigenous Celtic 
name and the similarity with Latin 'albus' merely a nice coincidence.

But if we are to take all the names quite seriously, I rather like Catlady's 
suggestion of names 'just happening' although I'm not sure *how* that would 
happen!
It rather reminds me of the names site that someone posted recently on this 
list, which turned out to be one that indicated personality based on the 
numerological values of given names. Presumably magical naming could work the 
same way.

Eloise


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