Harry is dull

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 45858

<Snip>
> Pip wrote:
<Snip>
> > 
> > Harry's learnt to not ask questions (it gets you screamed at)
> 
Amy Z replied:
> But he does ask them, doesn't he?  He's even quite snarky.  Aunt 
> Petunia doesn't want him to ask about his uniform, but he comments 
> anyway:  "Oh.  I didn't realize it had to be so wet."  Dudley 
> beats him up at every opportunity, but he insults him anyway (the 
> toilet remark).  One of his professors hates him from the git-go 
> but instead of being dutifully quiet, he says "Why don't you ask 
Hermione?"  
> We're on notice from the start that the backbone has not been 
> beaten out of Harry Potter.  (Please forgive misquotes, this is   
> from memory.)

Agreed. As I said, Harry is a great survivor - and one of his 
survival tactics is sarcastic comments (another is running very fast 
indeed).

But as for asking questions: Yes, he does ask questions – about 
unimportant things. Important ones – well, Harry has to be angry, or 
in real danger, or the adult has to encourage him. Otherwise, no.

 He doesn't, for example, ask Dumbledore about Hagrid or Tom Riddle 
in CoS, even though he sees in the Diary Vision that Dumbledore was 
also there. He doesn't tell any adult about the theft of Tom 
Riddle's diary. 

He has never asked any question whatsoever about what his mother 
liked, what subjects she was good at, even though there are people 
around him who knew her (Dumbledore, Sirius, McGonagall). What he 
knows about his father is largely what he has been told by other 
people – he only asks Dumbledore about James in response to 
Quirrel's comments that Snape hated his father.

 He asks Hagrid how his parents died in the immediate aftermath of 
discovering that the Dursley's have lied to him, and after a several 
page development where he's found out that Hagrid dislikes the 
Dursley's and will respond kindly to his questions. He's been 
friends with Hagrid ever since – but has asked him no further 
questions about his parents and their friends. 

He never, until PoA, considered asking who the people at his 
parent's wedding were, and if any of them were still around. He has 
never asked why his parents have so much money. 

He only asks Lupin if he knew James Potter when Lupin reacts oddly 
to Harry hearing his father's death. And does he then ask Lupin 
anything about his father, when he's having private tuition sessions 
with Lupin, when Lupin has told him he was a friend of James, when 
Lupin gives him a Butterbeer and they sit there drinking in 
*silence*? Nope.

Other, non-parental examples: He has never asked Neville why he was 
living with his Grandmother. From the beginning of CoS to the summer 
holidays in GoF, he doesn't ask why he can't go live with the 
Weasley's during the summers. Not until the very end of GoF, after 
he's actually told that Mrs Weasley had asked if he could live with 
them. 

 

> Pip Squeaks:
> > And since that's how he sees himself, and he's the pov  
> > character,that's what we see. Boring. Ordinary. Follows his 
> > friends suggestions, rarely makes his own.
>
Amy Z responds:  
> Rarely?  You think?
> 
> Off the top of my head:
> 
> -Harry's the one who insists on going after the Stone.  He maps  
> out the plan most of the way as well:  how to get past Fluffy,  
>who'll drop through the trapdoor first (him), what to do when they 
>have  enough potion to get only one of them through to the final   
> chamber.

 In PS/SS he found out about Fluffy by accident, he finds out about 
Snape's leg by accident, and it's not until he thinks that Snape is 
trying to kill him that he starts actively trying to protect the 
Stone. Until then he's only curious about it [which is not 
surprising considering Hagrid's heavy hints].

> 
> -Harry's the one who sorts through almost the entire problem in 
> CoS--in fact, I think it's a bit of a flaw that Ron is so much 
> the "great idea, boss!" figure there.  It's his idea to follow the 
> spiders, he figured out the Myrtle connection, and he doesn't 
> hesitate to take leadership in going into the Chamber.  He 
figures  
> out how to "kill" Riddle.  He has another spur-of-the-moment 
> brilliant idea about how to release Dobby and he DOES it, right 
> then and there against this really scary guy.

In CoS, he again `goes with the flow' until he finds himself hearing 
the balilisk threatening to *kill*. Ron suggests the car. Nick 
invites him into coming to the Deathday party.

> 
> Do I need to do books 3 and 4 too?  Or have I made my point?  Ron 
>and  Hermione contribute plenty, and if you want to argue that 
> Harry isn't THE leader you can give it a go (though I'll argue 
> back), but that Harry is A leader is undoubtable.  He may not 
> describe himself as one, but he acts as one, and that's how he  
> comes across, to this humble reader at least.

I'm not arguing that Harry isn't a leader. Harry *is* a leader. But 
he doesn't *see* himself as one, and one of his biggest problems is 
that it generally requires something quite dramatic to make him take 
charge. 

[His biggest problem is that a very intelligent meglomaniac thinks 
that killing Harry Potter might be an advantageous step in his 'how 
to rule the world' plan]. :-)

And I don't actually think Harry is boring, or ordinary, though I 
can quite see that you might have thought that from my original 
post. Because he is the pov character, and sees himself as dull and 
ordinary, it's quite easy IMO for the reader to think of Harry as 
dull and ordinary. The reader has to see beyond the pov to see that, 
(as I said with the 100 dementor Patronus example), Harry is doing 
things far, far beyond anything a dull, ordinary sort of kid could 
possibly do.

I repeat - JKR's vision of Harry is of a boy who doesn't know he's a 
wizard. And I think this theme is carrying through, and in many 
ways, Harry's journey is to find out who he is. Which is *not* dull, 
ordinary Harry Potter, the boy who isn't anything special.

Pip!Squeak

[And if Harry would like any help with his 'asking questions' 
problem, I have a list of questions that would let him get started. 
In fact, this entire list could probably supply him with appropriate 
questions...] ;-)