Bipolar, Self-Absorbed Sirius? (was Some Thoughts On Some Stuff)

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 45923

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., jodel at a... wrote:

> Dumbledore was also wary about Sirius for another reason. Sirius is 
clever 
> enough, but he is impulsive and he takes risks that are likely to 
get himself 
> killed. 

What are you basing this assumption on? We don't even know what pre-
Azkaban-Sirius did for a living or what his role in the original war 
was, so we don't know how risky his actions may have been.  Or are 
you talking about Student Sirius? Again, what we do know of possible 
risky behavior, other than attempting the Animagus Transformation, 
which would make Peter and James prone to the same risks?  

Post-Azkaban Sirius certainly takes risks with his own welfare, but, 
call me a sentimental fool, I honestly believe he's decided that he's 
of more potential use to Harry being close to Hogwarts, and not 
lounging about in whatever warm clime he was hiding out in.  IN this 
case, the risks are to himself more than anyone else.

You don't want someone for a secret keeper that is likely to go off 
> and get himself killed, taking the secret with him. 

Wouldn't that ensure that Voldemort couldn't possibly get the secret, 
if the secret keeper dies?

 IMHO, Sirius is not 
> particularly stable, even if he WAS James Potter's best friend. Not 
even back 
> then. The Dememtors only made him worse. (I suspect bi-polar 
disorder, 
> myself.)

Again, would you outline how you've come up with this diagnosis?  


> I think that James and his friends went back far enough and were 
such a 
> closely-knit group that, at the time, it didn't occur to either 
James or 
> Lupin that the spy was one of themselves. I think that they were 
more 
> inclined to suspect other members of Dumbledore's organization, 
with whom 
> they worked closely. Sirius, however, later admits that he had 
suspected 
> Lupin. This could be standard wizarding predjudice in action, 
coming to the 
> surface once push comes to shove. Or it could have been a bit of 
fallout 
> related to the Whomping Willow incident

Hmmm...I can buy some of this. But, as we know from Peter's 
treachery, MWPP were *not* as close-knit as they had once been.  I 
think we could argue either way as to whether they suspected someone 
else in D's organizations.  Certainly that's possible, but we don't 
have enough canon about that time to say for sure. 

 But, I think it's also possible that only the Potters' closest 
friends knew of their whereabouts, and they also knew that one of 
their number was a spy.  I think it possible that neither Remus nor 
Sirius suspected Peter because they still saw him as the hanger-on 
who was not particularly gifted, and simply discounted the 
possibility that he'd be the traitor.

> 
> Personally, I think it was the latter. Sirius is a throughly self-
absorbed 
> individual, (and was so well before the Dementors got their hands 
on him. 

I admit, I'm a Sirius fan, so sometimes I feel compelled to defend 
him.  You seem to be saying that Sirius was always self-absorbed and 
that he continues to be so because the Dementors have sucked out 
whatever good may have existed within him. Can you give some 
examples? 


> he is not of a forgiving disposition and he does not often choose 
to be put 
> in the wrong. (Unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter -- 
then he 
> wallows in it.)

I'm not sure I get this, either.  Who is Sirius not forgiving? For 
what?  Or do you mean that he can't get past his still-very-obvious 
dislike of Snape?  That relationship, to my mind, is very much a two-
way street.  

And I'd really like to know what wrong Sirius committed that he's 
wallowing in.  Surely not the Prank - many people on the list seethe 
at the thought that, to our knowledge, he's never apologized to Snape 
for that. Or is it that he set in motion the actions that caused his 
best friend and his best friend's wife to be murdered and his godson 
orphaned?  Sure, Sirius was all emotional about that in the Shrieking 
Shack scene, but the situation was highly emotional for every one in 
the room.  Hardly wallowing, in my book.  

And, in GoF, I don't see that at all.  I think Sirius feels guilt and 
remorse over all of that, and will continue to do so, but I don't see 
him wallowing in it.


 And if he harbored some niggling sense of blame toward Lupin 
> for having been the cause for his having been put into the wrong 
over the 
> Shrieking Shack incident, it wouldn't be the only case we've seen 
where he 
> has unrepentantly, and very disingeneously, determined to blame his 
own 
> victim for what could have happened to him. and if Sirius can be so 
self-serving as to 
> assign blame to Snape for the incident, he is certainly capable of 
assigning 
> it to Lupin as well. 

I can agree with you here that Sirius still seems unrepentant 
regarding Snape and the Prank. I don't know that I can make the leap 
that, of course, that means he'll blame Lupin as well. Nor, do we 
have evidence that he's ever blamed Lupin.  This sounds to me more 
that you want to make this assumption because it fits in with the way 
you view Sirius.  If Sirius was that bad, surely by now he would have 
said that it's really the Potters fault they died because they 
decided yo make Peter the Secret Keeper.  


>He was encouraging Sirius to suspect Lupin. He was 
> also probably working on Lupin to not fully trust Sirius. And he 
was 
> certainly working on James and Sirius to trust HIM. We still don't 
have much 
> of a handle on how James Potter's mind worked. But it is pretty 
clear that 
> Sirius is very easily manipulated by anyone who knows him well, and 
knows 
> what buttons to push. 

You seem pretty sure that Peter was deviously working on everyone 
behind the scenes to encourage distrust.  Could be true, but we need 
more information on exactly what was going on then.  And, if Peter 
was easily manipulating Sirius into this, he also seemed to be able 
to strongly influence James, Lily and Remus at the same time.  So, 
it's not just Sirius' buttons that were being pushed.

Which brings me to two other questions. 

1. Directed to those who have strong love him/hate him feelings re: 
either Severus or Sirius.  Don't you think it interesting that these 
people see Snape as either bitter, mean-spirited, spiteful, and an 
awful teacher or as brave, misunderstood, put-upon, but with his 
heart always in the right place.  And, as for Sirius, people with 
strong feelings either think he's arrogant, violent, mentally 
disturbed in one way or another, or he's a brave, good man who's got 
a genuine affection for Harry and would willingly give his life to 
protect Harry?  And why is it that it seems to be these two 
characters that cause the most intense feelings?

2. Will we be disappointed to find out that we all read *way* too 
much into all the HP characters' motivations, personalities, past 
histories?  I mean, what if, what we read is what we get?  No Evil!
Whoever.  No Dumbledore as the master manipulator.  And Snape was not 
doing a clever acting job - he really was pissed off at the end of 
PoA. Will we be disappointed if our pet theories get blown out of the 
water?  Which is not to say that we won't come up with new theories, 
once we get more fodder from JKR...

Marianne, who hasn't jumped to Sirius' defense in a while, and felt 
the need...