Why I Dislike The Twins/Toon Talk

[lucky_kari]

No: HPFGUIDX 43447

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "ssk7882" <skelkins at a...> wrote:

> Oh, sorry.  I guess I was just hoping for a different response.  You 
> see, I *like* vituperative language. 
> 
> But only when it's directed against fictional people.  So tell me, 
> then, is "cad" okay?

Absolutely not. Called Fred and George "cads" the other day, and I was 
personally attacked by my younger brothers, who called me a lot of 
names including "Percy." :-)On the other hand, they think it's fine to 
say anything hateful about Hagrid, whom they dislike more than Cindy 
does, if that's possible. 

> But of course, that can't all be placed at the Twins' door, by any 
> means.  It's the entire family dynamic that I see as a spiritually 
> eroding influence on Percy, and the twins are just one manifestation 
> (if a particularly abrasive one) of that dynamic.

You do have to write that Percy post, you know? What is the entire 
family dynamic? Are you going to be really mean to Molly Weasley and 
start off the HPFGU apocalypse? Do you think Arthur shares some of the 
blame for the dynamic? I've never seen anyone finger Arthur for 
anything, come to think of it, and I'm sure that can't be right. Every 
other Weasley has legions of detractors, and Arthur walks off scot 
free. Come to think of it, that's pretty much the canon situation as 
well. Will you be adding Imperio'ed Arthur to the mix?


> Really, I think that much of the problem in this entire discussion 
> has been one of definitions: clinical vs colloquial, for example.  
> It's also been muddied by the conflation of "bully" with "evil," not 
> to mention with "I think they act like bullies" with "I don't 
> like 'em" -- which was my own fault.  

I tried the other day to think about bullies that I like. I came up 
with Edmund Pevensie, who is obviously a bully, and such a delightful 
character before he is redeemed, after which he's not so interesting. 
However, one doesn't generally approve of Edmund's behaviour, 
betraying his siblings to the White Witch and all that. So I racked my 
brains further and came up with Psmith, the hero of P.G. Wodehouse's 
amusing novels, especially "Mike and Psmith." Psmith is undoubtably a 
bully. After being expelled from Eton, he quickly works to dominating 
his new school. He and his protege, Mike, start off by taking another 
boy's study for their own, and continue in a course of action that can 
only be described as bullying. However, he ends off as the hero of the 
school, loved by the Headmaster and everyone else except his 
ever-frustrated teacher nemesis and Head of the other House (who 
always reminds me of Snape), finally winning a Cricket game 
magnificently for the school. And I can't help but love him. Because 
he's so funny and cheery. His humour is verbal, and that could go 
a long way to explain why I like Psmith and not Fred and George. 

> Similarly, Amanda's posts explaining why, as a parent, she 
absolutely 
> would *not* have wanted Lupin to remain as a staff member at any 
> school attended by a child of hers were real eye-openers for me.  
I'd 
> just never really thought about the issue from that perspective
> before.  I had written it off as "discrimination," and left it at 
> that.  But of course, it isn't really all that simple, is it?  Lupin 
> really *is* a threat, and his forgetfulness when it comes to his 
> Wolfsbane Potion really *does* suggest that he may indeed have a few 
> non-compliance issues that make him even less someone a concerned 
> parent would want around their children.  
> 
> So have those discussions changed my reading of the text?  Oh, yeah.
> They sure have.  And Lupin is one of my favorite characters, too, so 
> of course it was a bit of a wrench to concede that those nasty 
> parents who would have wanted him to be fired really did have a 
valid 
> point.  

Yes, Amanda's posts were just heart-wrenching. If I want to understand 
the reaction to your Fred and George post, I just have to think about 
my emotional reaction to Amanda's posts. "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT 
LUPIN? BUT HE'S LUPIN. WHAT THE H.E.L.L.? (Hey! Everyone Loves Lupin!) 

> But I *like* it when that happens.  After all, if I didn't want to 
> expose myself to other people's readings of the books, then why on 
> earth would I be here?

Yes, after some reflection, Amanda's posts strengthened not weakened 
my appreciation for the character of Lupin. After all, I think Lupin 
comes to the same conclusion as Amanda at the end of PoA. He doesn't 
leave because of Snape outing him as a werewolf. He leaves because he 
realizes that he has no right to stay, even though everything that 
means anything for him is at Hogwarts.

Before that revelation, I and many others were always disturbed by 
Lupin's weakness at the end of PoA in leaving. Now, I appreciate Lupin 
all the more in the leaving scene.

You know, I wonder if some of my hostility towards Sirius Black stems 
from the fact that he really takes over Lupin's place in Harry's life, 
while Lupin makes no appearance throughout GoF. It just isn't fair. 
And if there isn't a substantial ammount of Lupin in OotP, I shall 
probably go nuts and start a "Sirius Black is Ever So Evil and a Bully 
As Well" club. 

> Cindy: 
> 
> > I imagine that some people don't welcome having their reading 
> > experience changed in this way. I can understand that.
> 
> I guess I'm having some difficulty understanding that.  Isn't that 
> what this forum is for?

Well, Elkins, could I confess that some of your theories have freaked 
me out? I've bought into them all, it seems, but some of them really 
upset my cozy vision of canon. Pointing out that Moody had rogue cop 
characteristics, for example, actually produced a rather hostile 
initial reaction. Like Cindy, I adore Moody. But well... I didn't post 
that reaction. I thought about it for a little, decided you were 
right, and posted in your defense. And these days I look forward to 
having my cozy vision of canon upset. 

However, I also think that something else is at play: fear of 
controversy. I was suckled on controversy. I can give as hard as I 
get, and not even consider having hurt feelings. But I learn that most 
people aren't like that, learn it painfully, when people take offense 
at my vigorous arguments. "But I didn't employ any Ad Hominems," I try 
to explain. No use. Lots of people just don't enjoy controversy. 

Eileen