The Stone and the Mirror(was; Riddle and Astronomy)

[ats_fhc3]

No: HPFGUIDX 43622

jodel 
> Yes, it certainly SEEMS clear that either someone intended that 
Harry and his 
> friends reach the Stone, or the chain of coincidences which 
permitted it is 
> just too long and too perfect to be believed. Which I think may be 
a flaw in 
> the plotting of the first book. It plain doesn't make logistic 
sense on the 
> part of the staff if the intention was to keep anyone from getting 
to the 
> Stone. The more ways of getting at something the more likely it is 
that 
> someone is going to succeed at it. The whole lead up of each task 
being 
> uniquely suited to one of the (four) children just frankly makes 
me balk. 

I don't think that the tasks were all suited for each of the 
children- (Actually, I think someone speculated that Dumbledore 
thought Neville would be with the trio and could figure out the 
herbology one) but then again, you've got three heads working 
together there, and three wizards in training can probably 
accomplish more than one full-grown wizard. 

I do worry about the safety of the stone in the first place, if 
three untrained wizards (or 2 wizards and a witch, if you prefer) 
were able to get to it. Then again, I think Harry is pretty much the 
only person who knows how to work the mirror correctly, and because 
he had the other two, they put their heads together and figured out 
the rest of the tasks.

> (Who was the Troll task supposed to be set for? Or was that to be 
a treamwork 
> exercise?)

Since Harry and Co. had (somewhat) defeated a troll once before, 
they probably would be able to do it again especially since all 
three were in a position to do something, and one wasn't hiding (I 
think, I can only think of the evil movie at the moment).

 
> Because the Stone was safe -- as long as Harry and Co. stayed away 
from it! 
> Dumbledore's conundrim had Quirrelmort completely stumped. Albus 
read 
> Riddle's mindset loud and clear. Riddle would NEVER have been able 
to 
> retrieve that Stone from the Mirror. 

I'm assuming that Riddle is Voldie, right?

And Quirrel was too tied up in knots to 
> be able to manage it either. The set dressing of the other tasks 
was exactly 
> that, set dressing. A series of solvable tasks which would slow 
progress 
> enough to make interception (and capture -- there was no other way 
out of 
> those chambers once one had entered them) more possible. But the 
Stone in the 
> Mirror would have kept the invader there trying to figure it out 
until he 
> gave up and made a run for it. 

Actually, Quirrelmort knew how to get past the tasks, seeing as how 
he was one of the teachers to put a guard on it. The talks probably 
slowed the trio down more than they slowed Quirrelmort down.


> Now, as to the flute, which is a complete side-issue, and not my 
main point; 

And I think is a coinkidink. (coincidence)

> I cannot recall whether Hagrid had already been told that the kids 
had met 
> Fluffy before Christmas. I seem to think that he had, and it 
throws off this 
> mini-theory if he hadn't. But he thinks Fluffy is a fine pet. He 
can't see 
> why the children might not want to make friends with his monster 
dog, and the 
> flute was just a useful gift to enable them to do so. 

I agree. But, sadly, I can only remember the movie, and I NEED my 
books! But I could have sworn that Hagrid knew that Harry and Co. 
knew about Fluffy.

> As to whether Dumbledore intended to let Harry know how to 
retireve the 
> Stone; Yes, actually. I believe that Dumbledore did exactly that. 
And very 
> carefully, too. He knew from Hagrid that Harry knew that Nicholas 
Flammel had 
> some part in the puzzle. He gave Harry his father's cloak at 
Christmas. The 
> Mirror was set up in a room close to the Library over the 
Christmas break (I 
> don't believe that it was there during the previous school term) 
and 
> Dumbledore staked the place out until Harry showed up. He 
continued this 
> watch until the first shock opf the discovery wore off and Harry 
started 
> reaching the point where he was open to suggestions regarding the 
Mirror and 
> what made it work. Then he planted his clues and left Harry to 
mull it over.

Actually, Harry was trying to escape from...someone (I can't 
remember who because I don't have my books and my mind has been 
poisioned by the film-that-must-not-be-named), and he took some 
wrong turns and wound up in that empty classroom. Now, unless 
Dumbledore IS omnipotent, there is no way for him to calculate 
Harry's going into the restricted section in the middle of the 
night, then taking the exact amount of wrong turning that would take 
him to the mirror. Harry's a smart kid, he knew what the mirror did, 
so he figured it out himself, based on what Dumbledore told him 
about the mirror.

> Now, what I think might have reasonably been intended by all this 
was to set 
> up a nice, safe little opportunity for Harry to have a nice safe 
chance at 
> five minutes of glory after the threat was past, and it was time 
to take the 
> Stone out of the Mirror to destroy it. Because while Dumbledore 
could hide 
> the Stone in the Mirror, it is less than conclusive that he would 
have been 
> able to get it out again by himself. After all, once the Stone was 
90% safely 
> out of the way of mischief-makers, I very much doubt that the 
dearest wish of 
> Dumbledore's heart would have been to have it back out in the 
world again. 
> What he saw in the Mirror is more likely to have been the vision 
of himself 
> destroying it. And he knew this. To set up an adventure for a 
child to gain 
> approval of his elders by retrieving a valuable object for them 
from its 
> hiding place, has a much more certain chance of being able to 
extract it. And 
> that's what I tend to think the whole Mirror of Erised was about. 
Dumbledore 
> intended for Harry to be the one to retrieve the Stone from the 
Mirror -- 
> after all the excitement was over.
> 
> Unfortunately, Murphy got into the act.

Murphy? You mean Quirrelmort? I don't think Dumbledore intended for 
Harry to get the Stone at all. However, I don't think he was 
surprised to find that Harry had it all figured out. He knew that 
Harry was smart enough to figure it out. I do remember this bit of 
canon, however, when Dumbledore rushes back from London and 
rhetorically asks Hermione and Ron if Harry had gone through. 
However, toward that point, he may have realized that Harry knew 
enough to go figure out the tasks and get to the mirror. However, 
maybe he didn't know that Harry would make it through all the tasks 
okay. Perhaps he just thought that Harry knew enough about the Stone 
to want to go and find it. 

-Acire, who is on the verge of buying 2nd copies of the books 
because she misses them horribly and can't wait to go and retrieve 
them in October.
This is, by far, the longest post I have ever done, and probably the 
only one that didn't mention Snape. Oh. Never mind. There he is.