[HPforGrownups] Snape vs. Dumbledore?

[Barb P]

No: HPFGUIDX 43781


--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "vixinalizardqueen" <vixinalizardqueen at h...> wrote:
> At the end of the book, whilst Snape was talking to Fudge about 
> how "he" "saved the day"(!!!), Snape comes incredibly close to 
> actually making a negative comment about Dumbledore. Sorry, I 
> can't remember exactly what is was, but it something to do with 
> how he was worried how Dumbledore would treat Harry's role in the 
> incident.
> 
> Ok, not exactly an earth-shattering criticism, but considering 
> what Snape owes Dumbledore (for his trust in him, etc) it was a 
> bit too-close for comfort. Anyway, it made me begin to wonder 
> about Snape's true feelings for Dumbledore, and where his loyalties
> actually lie.
 
I think it is useful to contrast Snape's attitude toward Dumbledore with Hagrid's.  We see repeatedly (the first time is very early in the first book, when Vernon Dursley dares to say something less-than-complimentary about Dumbledore) that Hagrid does not take ANY criticism or perceived slight of Dumbledore lying down.  He speaks deferentially to him, saying, "Professor Dumbledore, sir."  He stops just short of tugging on his forelock.  This is despite being about sixty-five years old, which is to say, about thirty years older than Snape.  Now, when it comes to Hagrid, one might say he is an emotionally-arrested thirteen-year-old, due to his expulsion, but still--you'd think after about fifty years he might finally address Dumbledore as a peer, as Snape usually does.  (And McGonagall, and Lupin, and just about everyone else on the staff.)
 
Sorry, didn't mean this to be all about Hagrid.  Anyway, there are many implications that Snape, like Hagrid, was given refuge (sanctuary?) at Hogwarts by Dumbledore and forgiven for things most people wouldn't forgive.  However, unlike Hagrid, he does not feel that this means he must worship the ground Dumbledore walks on and never criticize his headmaster, ever.  In a way, I think this is an indication that Snape and Dumbledore are far better friends than Hagrid and Dumbledore.  They obviously have disagreements, but it hasn't meant a parting of the ways.  In fact, when he needs him most, Dumbledore knows he can trust Snape to do what is necessary, despite great danger.  While Snape does frequently disagree with Dumbledore, I get the impression that when Albus has made a final decision about something, Snape does not fight him.  
 
> Point 1:- If it *is* true that Snape is after the DADA job, then 
> obviously he'd be a little miffed that he hasn't been considered, 
> especially after the disasters which have occurred through 
> Dumbledore's appointments for the position in the past.
 
This is a big "if," considering that the source was Percy Weasley, who, as a Gryffindor, probably doesn't much care for Snape.  This may also have been some projecting on Percy's part, as we learn later how ambitious he is.  After all, if he were in Snape's position, he'd probably think the DADA job was a better post.  I think this statment says far more about Percy than it does about Snape.
 
> Point 2:- No secret that Snape detests Harry, whilst Dumbledore
> pretty much favours him (giving him so many chances after bending 
> the rules, etc. Ok, even if things have usually turned out for the 
> best, I almost agree with Snape that any other student would be 
> expelled after taking so many dangerous risks and disobeying 
> orders so much). I cannot believe that Dumbledore's preferential 
> treatment of Harry has not hit a nerve of Snape's.
 
I'm sure it has, but it could also be that Snape is of the same opinion as Dobby, who thought Harry would be better off out of the wizarding world.  He certainly wouldn't have to run around saving his life if that were the case. ;)  


 
> Point 3:- Considering Malfoy, and the average Slytherin's dislike 
> of "mudbloods" entering the school, it is hard to believe that 
> Snape agrees with this policy. 

 

We don't get any indication that Snape holds anything against any student except not being a Slytherin.  He treats the pure-blood non-Slytherins as badly as the Muggle-borns.
 
> Point 4:- Dumbledore's affinity for Sirius, and the fact that 
> Dumbledore didn't even expell him after the prank which nearly 
> cost Snape his life.
 
Again, this is an area in which Snape and Dumbledore disagree.  But did he argue at the end of GoF, when Sirius was revealed to him?  No, he did not.  He was ready to do his duty, even understanding the dangers involved.
 
> Ok, to an average person this wouldn't really weigh up against the 
> trust that Dumbledore has put in Snape, and the secret thing which 
> obviously leads to this trust, and is possibly a bond between the
> two. 
> 
> However, Snape is definitely not an average person. We have seen 
> that he holds grudges (boy, does he hold grudges!!!) for an 
> exceedingly long time (he even dislikes Harry because of his 
> FATHER and his treatment of him!!!). With the imminent split 
> between the Dumbledore faction, and the Fudge faction at the end 
> of GoF, it will be very interesting to see where Snape's loyalties 
> lie. Even if he isn't a DE, he could still join the Fudge camp, 
> and possibly campaign for a new Headmaster of Hogwarts (possibly 
> even himself?). He's (apparently!!!!) gone to do Dumbledore's 
> bidding for the moment, but only time will tell.
 
I think Snape's kissing up to Fudge was due to Snape's possibly feeling that he still needs to rehabilitate his image (since he's a former Death Eater).  His words to Fudge had an undercurrent of, "Look!  I'm one of the good guys!  I was saving Harry Potter, for heavnen's sake!"  He has quite a balancing act, frankly, since most of the time he seems obsessed with making everyone knows he favors Slytherin students above all others (perhaps to be in good standing with their parents, many of whom may have been supporters of Voldemort).
 
Frankly, I like the fact that Snape is willing to speak his mind and serves as someone who can play devil's advocate when Dumbledore is considering courses of action.  Dumbledore does not usually question Snape's teaching methods, we must remember.  He respects him and trusts him.  Even Hagrid, since he is always loyal to the headmaster, told the Trio that they were crazy for suspecting Snape was up to something.  I think, however, that JKR making him unrelentingly unlikable is just her way of continuing to make people (most the Trio) doubt Snape, since she loves her red herrings.  As a result, Snape is the last person I would expect to turn out villainous.
 
--Barb

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Psychic_Serpent
http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Barb


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]