[HPforGrownups] Re: Why Can't Hagrid Do Magic?

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 43933

Regarding my use of misdemeanour:

> bboy_mn relpies:
> Yes, that is how I read it and most American would probably have
> similar read, however, I was trying to discredit your post, I simply
> wanted to re-enforce that this crime that resulted in a death, so it
> was a very serious crime.

Is that *was* or *wasn't* trying to discredit? ;-)

> 
> Broken wand and forbidden to use magic are very benevolent punishments
> for a crime that resulted in death. 

Well, I sort of agree and disagree.
For the WW, certainly this is true.
But I think it might depend on whether it was believed that Hagrid was 
deliberately setting his Acromantula on people or that he was just foolish 
enough not to realise that it was dangerous. People kill other people under 
all sorts of different circumstances and receive widely varying punishments. 
At least, they do here.

I personally don't think there is anything particularly benevolent in 
forbidding someone who can only live in the WW form using magic. I've often 
tried to imagine what it would be like living in the WW as a Muggle and I 
think it would be incredibly hard. You would be reduced to using essentially 
medieval technology in a society where everyone else had magical means doing 
things, or leaving to live life as a Muggle. It must be terribly obvious that 
you're not allowed to (or can't do - poor Squibs) magic. You don't snap your 
fingers, or get out your wand to light a fire, but start messing around with 
a tinder box. Like going around in a convict suit, really.

> Bboy_mn
> <>Eloise continues:
> > 
> > Animagi_Raven actually said:
> > >The student death [singular] was probably blamed 
> > >on the spider (but how did a spider turn someone to stone?)    
> >
> > [to which Eloise replied]
> > Well, Myrtle was just *dead*, not turned to stone, ..snip...
> > 
> > Eloise
> 
> bboy_mn responds:
> I'll let Animagi_Raven speak for himself, but I think the part above
> in parenthesis is meant to be a separate statement.  More alone the
> line of 'The student's death was probably blamed on the spider, but
> how did a spider turn the other students into a stone-like state?' The
> point being that spiders kill people but they aren't known to petrify
> them, so how could the spider have done it?
> 
Eloise:
The thing that I'm not sure I'm understanding, is who the other students to 
whom you refer are.
Were other students petrified the first time, as wel as Myrtle dying? 
If so, I agree, there is potentially a problem.

Or are you referring to the students petrified during CoS?

As far as the MOM was concerned, Hagrid was associated with the previous 
occasion on which the Chamber was allegedly opened and therefore is suspect 
again. Since it is far from clear whether the story of the opening of the 
Chamber  and the existence of the monster of Slytherin was believed in the 
first place (remember Binns' insistence that it is pure legend) and Hagrid is 
associated with all manner of creatures, I don't think that was totally 
unreasonable (from the MOM's POV) to think that he might have been letting 
something diffferent roam around this time.

You see, whether the legend was believed or not and despite Tom Riddle's 
implication that it was, I don't think Hagrid *can* have been believed to 
have been the Heir of Slytherin, opener of the Chamber, controller of the 
Monster and a deliberate murderer. Surely even Dumbledore couldn't have saved 
him from the consequences of that, which surely would have been much greater 
than expulsion and wand-snapping. This, of course ties in with what we were 
discussing above about whether the punishment was lenient or not.

So if he was only thought to have let one of his 'pets' loose, I don't think 
it's necessary for him to have been believed to have let the *same* creature 
loose the second time round.

Grey Wolf has pointed out that spiders (some, at least) do paralyse their 
prey. This is true, although I think Dumbledore, in all his wisdom and 
experience, would have recognised the difference between that and 
petrification. Don't ask me how. I don't know how he diagnosed petrification 
in the first place.

Eloise
Having difficulty getting her thoughts straight.








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