[HPforGrownups] Snape's DE past (was:Re:Snape's "mind set")

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 44301

kel:

[those who know Snape's DE history]
> > > Snape's history are:
> > > the Hogwarts faculty (and probrably not all of them)
> > > 
> > Eloise replies:
> > It's not clear to me that 'any' of them know, aside from Dumbledore. 
> > Unless you count Crouch/Moody.
> 
> I say: Yes, it is possible that none of them know; I would be a bit
> surprised if not even McGonagall knew, however.

Eloise:
Actually, I wouldn't. 
I think it's quite likely that she does, but Dumbledore doesn't seem to 
confide everything in her.

> > 
> > kel:
> > 
> > > the few Slytherins that we actually know of
> > 
> > Eloise:
> > Again, I don't actually see evidence of that. Why would they know?
> 
> I say: If most (possibly not all) of the students in Slytherin have DE
> parents, I would think that at least some of them would know Snape was a
> comrade of sorts, or at least know his name. (I am going by the scene in
> GoF, when Voldemort is naming names and having his little reunion. The ppl
> in that bunch seem to know each other quite well.)

Eloise:
Do they know each other well?
I remember someone once suggesting that the naming of names in that group was 
actually quite significant, in that it is only those he is displeased with 
who get named.
They know their places in the circle, but I along with others think that 
secrecy really is the name of the game. The fewer that know each others 
identities, the better. There aren't that many of them (I'm not sure about 
this - what is the accepted number of Voldemort's followers?), yet one of the 
reasons for bearing the Dark Mark is to identify themselves to each other. 
And they habitually wear hoods and masks when in DE mode, as well.

I also don't think that we can assume that Slytherin = Supporter of Lord 
Voldemort. In fact I rather think that that may be a trap that JKR *wants* us 
to fall into.
And could the majority of them have DE parents?
*If* there are 1000 students at Hogwarts and *if* the houses contain equal 
numbers (big 'if's, I know), there should be approximately 250 Slytherins (at 
the Quidditch Cup there are 200 supporters at that end of the pitch). Even if 
all these represent 2 children families (and single children seem to be in 
the majority at Hogwarts)  and only 75% of them have DE parents, we're still 
left with about 75 DE parents and I don't think the circle was that big. We 
can in addition assume that there are DEs who don't have children at 
Hogwarts.
No. I think that the DEs are Voldemort's inner circle. There may have been 
widespread support for him amongst Slytherin families, but I don't think we 
can assume that most of them were on the inside.
A further point that I would make is that I never feel that Draco actually 
*does* get all the inside gen from his father. Any sensible DE will both 
protect his children from knowledge they do not need to have and not go 
blabbing secret stuff that might be leaked as playground gossip. 
How many children of spies, for instance, *know* that that is what their 
parent does for a living?

I guess that Slytherins would assume that the head of their house was a 
likely candidate to be a sympathiser with Voldemort, except for the fact that 
he is employed by Dumbledore.
Oh... that isn't a very good argument. So was Quirrell!

kel:
The fact that he does not mention Snape by name DOES give me pause, and
> 
> could mean that they were unaware of Snape's involvement. Or maybe not.

*shrug*

Eloise:

Or that JKR gagged him!
I think he's enjoying being inscrutable! He's clearly not willing to name 
names there. He doesn't name Barty Crouch, either, who should qualify for 
some praise, shouldn't he, in contrast to the way the other DEs have let him 
down. Nor does he name the ones in Azkaban who will be honoured beyond their 
wildest dreams. 

Eloise again:
> <>> But I don't see that it *can* be common knowledge. I'm sure the parents
> > and 
> > Governors wouldn't stand for an ex-DE on the staff, no matter how
> > reformed he 
> > was. Fudge says he allowed Dumbledore to employ a werewolf, yet seems
> > shocked 
> > that he'd employed a DE. 

kel:
> 
> Well, when you think of how many ex-DE's ARE Governors.... is Lucius the
> only one? Somehow I doubt it, although if there are more, they are
> probrably in the minority.

Eloise:
Good point. I had never thought of that - there may be more. But the 
impression I get is that the others are (were) all under Lucius' thumb 
anyway, given the way Dumbledore gets so many complaints about Lucius' 
threats when he has him removed.


> 
> Surely the rumour would
> > be 
> > that Snape is into the Dark Arts because 'he was once a follower of You
> > Know 
> > Who', if it were common knowledge? Ron says that everyone knows that
> > Lucius 
> > was a big supporter of You Know Who. Yet he doesn't know about Snape. I
> > don't 
> > see that his past *can* be known.
> 

kel:
Which was exactly the point of my whole post. :)

Eloise:

Oh dear! I got a bit carried away and didn't make it clear I understood that.
Sorry!
Yes, I realise that, I wasn't disputing the main thrust of your post, just 
quibbling and saying that I think it's even more secret than you do! I don't 
really see how the majority of the Slytherins knowing ties in with secrecy.



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