wormtail's supposed bravery and Crouch jr and the Imperius Curse was:Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Houses Mystery)

[evenflow200214]

No: HPFGUIDX 44672

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rita" <potter76 at l...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel on Wormtail:
> 
> >He is mocked for his supposed cowardice yet he has done many brave 
things,
> albeit for
> >evil. A lesser man would not have had the nerve to face Sirius 
after
> >betraying the Potters, they would have gone underground. But Peter
> >allowed Sirius a chance to fight and Sirius lost.
> 
> Sorry to contradict you, but facing Sirius was only part of the 
plan to go
> underground letting everyone believe he had died. He didn't allow 
Sirius
> anything, Sirius was the only one to know that he was the real 
Secret Keeper
> so he was sure that only Sirius would have come after him when what
> happened to the Potters had become known; he also knew that 
everyone else
> thought Sirius the Secret Keeper so that he (Sirius) would be 
blamed;
> staging his murder by Sirius would leave everyone further convinced 
that
> Sirius was the culprit.
>  It's true that the only account of what happened in
> that occasion is given by Sirius, so you can certainly call it a 
biased
> version of the facts, anyway in PoA ch. 19 Sirius says that Peter 
didn't
> even attempt to fight " he yelled for the whole street to hear that 
I'd
> betrayed lily and James. Then, beforeI could curse him,he blew 
apart the
> street with the wand behind his back, killed everyone within 20 
feet of
> himself- and sped down the sewer wit the other rats".
> 
> 

Did we get a clear picture of who's idea it was that Wormtail turn in 
Sirius? We know that Voldemort never even considered his own 
downfall. I can't see other DE's or the good side helping him after 
as he would have been hated by both had he "stayed alive" And 
McGonagall, who is less in the inner crowd, said that Peter tracked 
Sirius down which meant that Peter had to get Sirius there and risk 
being killed on the spot.


> >He also allowed
> >himself excruciating pain to get Voldemort back to power, the way 
he
> >cut his arm off shows a brave man
> 
> 
> I don't see any bravery in this either. It seems to me he's simply 
overruled
> by Voldemort who commands fear even in his hapless baby form.
> 

Yeah, I agree. You're probably right

> 
> What you said in your other post about Crouch jr is very 
interesting. I
> didn't recall that Harry had already tried and sort of overcome the 
Imperius
> Curse with the help of the fake Moody. Why giving to someone you 
know is
> going to fight in a battle you are supposed to wish he will lose a 
useful
> trick that might help him win? Crouch could not know if Vold meant 
to use
> that curse against Harry, but as we're told that the Unforgivable 
Curses
> were tipical of Vold and his followers he must have known that the 
least
> Harry knew about them the better! Dumbl. might have asked Moody to 
show them
> to the 4th-years and so he couldn't have refused. But why, in the 
first
> place?
>  I assume that there might be Dumb behind this choice because Moody 
in
> his first lesson says: "I'm not supposed to show you what illegal 
Dark
> curses look like until you're in the 6th year. You're not supposed 
to be old
> enough to deal with it til then. Bur Professor dumbledore's got a 
higher
> opinion of your nerves, he reckons you can cope". did D know that 
Harry
> might have needed to know such curses, maybe in relation to the 
fact that he
> had be entered into the Tournament?
> 
> One last thought about the Imperius Curse, it doesn't seem to be 
that big
> deal if in one book we are shown 3 characters fighting it ( Crouch 
sr,
> Crouch jr and harry)!
> R.
> 

Crouch jnr must have been interested in Harry's supreme power. It 
took Crouch jnr years to break free of the curse, Crouch snr months 
and this "special child" takes five minutes. This shows Harry's 
potential power

The thing is though, he put Harry through it about five times, if he 
wanted to stick to what Dumbledore said, why not show him once and 
move on to someone else? But it says in the text, he "put him through 
it five times until he could throw it off"



> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]