Trusting Dumbledore (was: Snape and Dumbledores trust)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 54806

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Wolber
<katydid3500 at y...> wrote:

> Kathryn:
> 
> Me: Well technically, I wouldn't say he came back from the dead. 
With the Time Turner, they went back and changed the past...so to
everyone else, Buckbeak never died.  


bboy_mn:

I'm not disputing what you said, I'm just going to expand on it a
little. People only run into problems with time travel if they assume
'time' occcurred twice. For example, the first time Buckbeak is
executed, the second time he isn't. But time only occurs once in this
incident, and time only moves forward. 

The first time through the time line, about the time
Harry1/Ron/Hermione1 are hiding in the Entrance Hall waiting for it to
clear, Harry2/Hermione2 join the time line and hide in a different
room; they are there the first time events occur. They are there, they
were there, and they always will be there.

Although, H1/R/H1 don't see it, the so called first time through the
events, Hagrid, Dumbledore, the executioner, etc... come out of
Hagrid's cabin and discover that Buckbeak has escaped. The executioner
slams his axe into the fence. The first time through the events
Buckbeak isn't there because minutes before, H2/H2 moved him.

If you look at the events this way, they are a lot less confusing.


> greatlit2003: How did Harry arrive across the lake in the first
place if he was about to be attacked by the dementors? 
> 


> Me: (Kathryn)
> 
> Hmm, well Harry didn't bring himself back from the dead, he just
used magic to save himself in the first place, so this doesn't really
apply. ....  I think Harry saving himself in PoA is what made her so
... shaky maybe at that part. I think she was genuinely trying to say
something that wouldn't be contradictory to the books.

bboy_mn:

As I said before Harry2 was always there, he was in Hagrid's cabin
with Hermione2 then went out to the lake to observe. As he watched the
Dementors attack himself for the first time, he realized that HE has
to cast the Petronus Charm. Again, it's only confusing if you assume
that this event occurred once without Harry2 and once with Harry2. In
reality (fictional reality), it only occurred once and there were two
Harry's there because a couple hours before that, Harry2 had joined
the time line.


> 
> greatlit2003:
> 
> I wouldn't want to dismiss this situation as simply "magic" because
a lot of other tragedies could have been prevented if the victims (or
their friends) had an access to a Time Turner. 
> 
> Me: (Kathryn)
>
>Well, that's why Time Turners are so hard to get.  ...edited...
> 
> *Kathryn*, who enjoyed this post because it gave her something to
think about this morning:)


bboy_mn:

If you look at this from the perspective of events only occuring once
and time only moving forward, you see that Hermone and Harry really
didn't change anything; time and events weren't altered. 

Time travel only causes problems when events that are totally resolved
know documented history are altered, as long as the outcome is
ambiguous or unkown, changes can be made. 

For example, Sirius was never kissed by the Dementor; that is, he
hadn't been kissed when Harry and Hermione went back in time and when
they were done he still hadn't been kissed by the Dementor. So they
didn't alter an event that had happen, they controlled the means by
which an event that hadn't happen didn't happen (did that make sense).
In other words, the never affected the 'what', they only affected the
'why' of events.

In the not too distant past, there were several long extensive
discussion of time travel. Very interesting stuff, well worth
searching back and reading for anyone who is interested in the
mechanics of time travel.

bboy_mn