The Gleam of Something Like Triumph (WAS: HP and LV die together?)

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 55412

Okay, I am perfectly willing to jump into a "Gleam" discussion again 
-- at least until June 21st!!

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Troels Forchhammer 
<t.forch at m...> wrote:

> Let me quote the passage in question:
>    "  When Harry told of Wormtail piercing his arm with the
>     dagger, however, Sirius let out a vehement exclamation; and
>     Dumbledore stood up so quickly that Harry started. Dumbledore
>     walked around the desk and told Harry to stretch out his arm.
>     Harry showed them both the place where his robes were torn,
>     and the cut beneath them.
>       'He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used
>     someone else's,' Harry told Dumbledore. 'He said the
>     protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it, too. And
>     he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he
>     touched my face.'
>       For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of
>     something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second,
>     Harry was sure he had imagined it, for when Dumbledore had
>     returned to his seat behind the desk, he looked as old and
>     weary as Harry had ever seen him.
>       'Very well,' he said, sitting down again. 'Voldemort has
>     overcome that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.' "
> 
> Harry tells about Wormtail piercing his arm and Dumbledore then
> examines the cut. 

Annemehr:
Dumbledore doesn't just examine the cut, he stood up suddenly enough 
to *startle* Harry.  It almost seems as though he's reacting to the 
fact that Wormtail cut him. Sirius' reaction can easily be put down to 
the fact that he's just found out that someone has injured the one 
person in the world who means the most to him.  But Dumbledore's 
reaction seems to indicate that Wormtail's act of cutting Harry has 
some startling significance.

>After that Harry continues by explaining /why/
> Voldemort wanted to use Harry's blood. It seems that it must
> have been completely obviouse to Dumbledore already when he
> examines Harry's arm that Harry's blood had been used for the
> ritual - possibly Dumbledore even knows the ritual (and both
> its strengths and weaknesses).

Annemehr:
If Dumbledore knew the ritual already, wouldn't he have recognised it 
by Harry's description before Harry told of his arm being cut?  If 
Dumbledore knew, it must have been obvious to him already why Harry 
was tied to that gravestone, and he wouldn't have been startled to 
hear that Wormtail had cut Harrry's arm to draw blood.  Unless -- 
maybe Dumbledore didn't expect Wormtail to be able to actually do it 
because of the life debt?

On the other hand, perhaps Dumbledore did not know the specific 
ritual.  He still could have been surprised that Wormtail was able to 
cut Harry.  In any case, he approaches Harry to examine the cut and 
ponder what it means.

> 
> The gleam is described immediately after Harry tells that
> Voldemort could touch him, and I think that it is /that/
> piece of information that triggers the gleam. Not the use of
> Harry's blood per se, but the fact that it made Voldemort
> capable of overcoming Harry's protection - or perhaps rather
> (using Voldemort's own words) that "the lingering protection
> his mother once gave him would then reside in [Voldemort's]
> veins too".

Annemehr:
I'm not sure of this.  It is possible that hearing of the cut causes 
Dumbledore to startle, and hearing that Voldemort can touch Harry 
causes the gleam.

*On the other hand,* I could read it that, hearing of the cut causes 
Dumbledore to startle and *to start contemplating what that implies.* 
 All the while Harry is explaining *why* Wormtail cut him, Dumbledore 
may be absorbed in his own thoughts about what the implications are. 
The gleam may be based on whatever his conclusions are to this thought 
process and have nothing to do with the fact that Voldemort can now 
touch Harry. 

> 
> We know a few things about the protection Lily left in
> Harry. According to Dumbledore (in PS):
>    "  'Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing
>     Voldemort cannot understand, it is love.
<snip>
> 
> Voldemort cannot understand love. The protection (which now
> also resides in his veins) is, basically, an expression of
> love (combined with the sacrifice): I think this accounts for
> why Voldemort has overlooked some side effect of this, which
> Dumbledore (who obviously does understand love) is quick to
> realise.
> 
> What exactly this side effect might be, I cannot guess, but I
> am sure that it will be related to Harry's protection specifically
> and not his blood in general.
> 
> Troels


Annemehr:
This could well be true.  BUT, on the other hand, if the gleam is 
related to the fact of the cut, then the "looking as old and weary as 
he ever did" may relate to disappointment that Voldemort can indeed 
touch Harry now.

Of course, the idea that the gleam is in response to the cutting of 
Harry's arm seems to imply that Dumbledore is glad that Wormtail cut 
Harry.  This, of course, is a large can of worms!  Dumbledore does 
know things about life-debts that we do not.  As Wormtail did nothing 
life-threatening in the cut itself, it may not be surprising that the 
life-debt didn't prevent it.  Maybe an indebted wizard who injures the 
one who saved him makes himself even *more* vulnerable or indebted 
somehow?  Cursed in some way analogous to surviving on unicorn's 
blood?  Injuring one who has saved your life must have some 
implications in ancient magic!  Maybe this, along with the presence of 
Wormtail's hand in the potion, could further weaken Voldemort in ways 
he doesn't forsee?  Even though the hand went in before the cutting 
was done?  I could point out that it is doubtful that Voldemort even 
knows about Wormatail's life-debt, so its effect on the potion, 
whatever that may be, could not have been foreseen by him (unlike the 
phoenix tears).

As to the fact that the use of Harry's blood in the potion seems to 
have made Voldemort able to physically touch Harry now,  I do agree 
with Troels that this *has* to have some consequences to Voldemort.  I 
am just not sure whether this is what caused the "gleam" in 
Dumbledore's eye or even if Dumbledore himself knows what the 
consequences may be.  After all, this has never happened before in his 
experience, I am sure.  It may take him some time to work it all out.

Annemehr
who is finding this more fun than she thought a gleam discussion would 
be...