Is Snape's Former DE Status Public Knowledge?

[Brangwyn]

No: HPFGUIDX 55464

Thank you for the welcome.  I'm combining a couple of replies.

I wrote: 
> > It seems Fudge didn't know Snape was a Death Eater. But why not?  
> > If Snape's trial was as public as Barty Crouch's and Karkaroff's, 
> > and if Dumbledore stood and pronounced that Snape had been a DE and

> > then became a spy against LV (as he did in the memory in the
> > Pensieve), why doesn't Fudge know what seems to be common 
> > knowledge? 

erisedstraeh2002 wrote:
> This particular question stumps me.  At Karkaroff's trial, Dumbledore

> publicly states: "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater.  However, 
> he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy 
> for us, at great personal risk.  He is now no more a Death Eater than

> I am" (GoF, Ch. 30).  And while there's no mention of Rita Skeeter at
> this trial, Harry does notice "at least two hundred" witches and 
> wizards in the audience.  Which suggests the possibility that Snape's
> Death Eater status is public knowledge.  But Sirius doesn't know 
> about it - in Ch. 27, he tells HRH: "But as far as I know, Snape was 
> never even accused of being a Death Eater..."  And Fudge doesn't 
> appear to know, either, judging from his reaction when Snape shows 
> him the Dark Mark on his arm.  So we either have to believe that the 
> two hundred witches and wizards in attendance at Karkaroff's trial 
> kept this information to themselves, or that it's public knowledge 
> but individuals who one would think would know about it (Sirius and 
> Fudge) don't know for some unexplained reason.
> 
> While I would think Sirius would know since he was part of the "old 
> crowd" that presumably fought Voldemort during his firt reign of 
> terror, it's more perplexing that Fudge doesn't know, since his 
> fellow Ministry colleague Crouch Sr. knows, as he states at 
> Karkaroff's trial: "Snape has been cleared by this council...He has 
> been vouched for by Albus Dumbledore."  
> 
> I also note that while Crouch Sr. refers to Snape being "cleared," 
> it's unclear whether or not Snape actually had a trial.
> 
> ~Phyllis

The more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable from one view
that Sirius did *not* know about Snape's time as a Death Eater, and
certainly not his work as a spy.  It works if you accept the premise
that the "old crowd" worked in cells, no one small group really knowing
the entire organization -- no one but Dumbledore and perhaps a
lieutenant like McGonagall.  It fits with a hunch I have that even if
Snape had shown up at the Potters' and tried to warn them LV was
coming, James would have kicked him out.  He would have had no reason
to believe him.  (I digress.)  Besides, Sirius has been out of
circulation for years and hasn't heard any rumors about Snape, hasn't
had a chance to revise his opinion about his boyhood foe.  If someone
told me the smarmy kid who sat behind me in fifth grade was in the CIA
now I would probably have a good belly laugh, no matter how much I
disliked him at the time.

Fudge is a different matter.  Which makes me wonder if Snape ever had a
trial at any time, or perhaps it was just some kind of small, private
hearing -- though Dumbledore's very public announcement seems to defeat
the purpose of a private hearing.  Whatever the case, it would have
plainly been insane to have *publicly* had a trial or hearing while the
war was still going on if there was any thought of using Snape as a
spy!  It seems to me that it would have been impossible to send him
back to LV as a spy if he had been through a public trial.  LV surely
wouldn't have been pleased if Snape had denied him; and if Snape
publicly admitted to being a Death Eater, how was he to account for
showing up at the next DE meeting?  But note that Crouch Sr. and
Dumbledore's words imply different verdicts -- Crouch's words imply
that he was found innocent ("cleared,") Dumbledore states that he was a
Death Eater.  We still don't know if there was a trial, only that Snape
rejoined their side and turned spy.

Jason wrote:
> Anyways, I don't necessarily think Fudge was suprised that Snape was
> a death eater, I think he knew that already. I think he was just >
shocked that the mark was burning as brightly as it was, and refused to
> believe what was happening. 

That's possible.  I just had the feeling from those very funny scenes
at the end of PoA ("Fellow seems quite unbalanced," said Fudge, staring
after him.  "I'd watch out for him if I were you, Dumbledore." PoA,
Scholastic, 420.) that Fudge was meeting Snape for the first time and
really didn't know anything about him.  Fudge is such a politician he's
always chummy when he first meets people.

> As far as Sirius, he was probably in Azkaban when Crouch was 
> on trial, because it was after Voldemort was defeated that the trial 
> occured, and they were rounding up the last of the death eaters. >
Sirius said he remembers when Crouch was brought into Azkaban. Because
> he wasn't around during the last roundup, he probably never heard >
about it. And because it was in Dumbledore's best interests to remain >
quiet about the whole situation, he probably never mentioned it to >
Sirius after he got out.

I follow you about Sirius being in Azkaban and not hearing the remarks
about Snape, but why was it in Dumbledore's best interests not to tell
Sirius about Snape's past?  You think it would have just stirred up
Sirius' suspicions about Snape?

I still can't come up with a satisfactory reason why Fudge doesn't seem
to know Snape was a Death Eater, or that the ministry owes much of
their information about LV to him.  And I still can't figure out
whether Snape had a real trial or not.  Fanfic writers need to know
these things!

=====
Brangwyn

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