[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape at the end of GoF

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 55709

Gina:

Indeed, Becky.  Harry knows and recognizes negativity from Snape.  But can
he recognize and interpret other feelings and expressions from him?  I am
convinced that Snape looks at Harry with a combination of concern and awe.
He is contemplating Harry and his future, as well as the future of the
wizarding world which will undoubtedly fall into Harrys hands.

Snape has been working very hard for 4 years to protect Harry.  Which seems
to elude Harrys recognition and gratitutde in context.  Now Voldemort has
returned in the flesh, which will necessitate doubling or tripling of those
efforts.  Plus, Harry held his own against Voldemort.  Snape may have a
newfound respect for him.  I think there was a hint of that in CoS, with the
Parseltongue.  Snape getting a sense of what this kid is made of.  I for one
am very very eager to see how their relationship changes and grows in GoF.
But then, Im an unapologetic Snape fan who is waiting for Harry to thank
Snape for his efforts.
--------------------

Hm. For some reason, the "quoted material" carets didn't show up. Well, this
is Amanda now.

I agree with just about everything you and Becky before you had said (except
the awe part. I don't think Snape is awed by anyone except Dumbledore).

I will add my own spin, which I have long believed: Snape is only now seeing
Harry as Harry, rather than James' (or Lily's) son, with all the attendant
emotional baggage that latter view brought. Snape, I think, has been
sublimating his past in his reactions to Harry et al., up to now (and in his
treatment of Draco). I think this last exchange of glances at the end of GoF
is the very, very first time that Snape is looking at Harry without the
emotional context being foremost in his reaction.

For those of you who have missed this particular theme of mine (for it has
been long since I harped it onlist), I think Snape has never really bothered
to perceive anything about Harry. I think his immediate and lasting way of
dealing with Harry was by dealing with him the way he wished James had been
dealt with. In his view, James and his friends were always breaking rules
and getting away with murder, and so he is doing his best to keep Harry from
doing that. Probably equal parts of sublimation and revenge, both
subconscious, with a conscious intent to protect and enforce the rules.

As for Draco, Snape lets him get away with stuff, because he, Snape, doesn't
think *he* got away with stuff. If Harry et al. is James et al., Draco is
Snape. The emotional reactions and "programming" were set years ago; Snape's
been on "reactionary autopilot" where these children are concerned, ever
since they met him. Only now, now that things have taken a serious turn and
contingency plans have been activated, only now is Snape looking at Harry
and seeing Harry more than he is seeing the past.

In my opinion, also, none of this is conscious. Snape is a proud, grown man
and has much more to do with his life than lie awake thinking of how to make
this child's life miserable. I think if he realized what he's doing, he'd
stop. There are loads of ways to validate how he treats all of them, and he
does this. It *is* a good idea to enforce rules.

And I personally think that he is, consciously, exercising a subtle revenge
on the Malfoys by indulging Draco so; for Draco will be supremely unprepared
to face any challenge or danger (unlike Harry, who already has experience
with both, and much of whose ability to weather adversity comes from dealing
with Snape). He cannot take the postive action of encouraging or helping
Harry--for reasons both conscious and sub--but he can take the negative
action of weakening Harry's enemy.

And Amanda's Take on Snape, for the record and to state this again publicly
closer to the release of OoP

I think Snape loved Lily.

I do *not* think they had any kind of a "thing" going or were ever a couple.
I think he loved her and loves her still; I think he worked himself up to
confess it to her; I think she let him down easy so that he does not hate
her; I think she only later became James' girl.

I think Snape harbors a secret horrible fear that Lily told James about
this, which adds strength to his hatred of James.

I think part of the reason Snape hates James with such dedicated venom is
that he's pulled a neat bit of sublimation (which, interestingly, I saw
operating in an old boyfriend of mine), where all reactions positive were
associated with her (so that he still loves her) and all reactions negative
were associated with James (including any anger at her).

I think Snape has a personal code of honor which is strict, which he applies
equally to himself and to others, and which has absolutely nothing to do
with socially accepted values or laws.

I think both Dumbledore and Voldemort know this about Snape.

I think Snape asked Voldemort to spare Lily, and Voldemort said he would,
and then did not. Voldemort thus transgressed, according to Snape's code,
and both Voldemort and Snape know Snape thinks this. This is my reason for
believing Snape is the DE who "I believe has left me forever." And I think
it *is* the final reason he will not truly completely go back, in his heart,
to Voldemort. I think Dumbledore knows all this as well, which is why he
trusts Snape so.

I think Harry is difficult for Snape to deal with, since I think he has this
positive/negative sublimation going with Lily and James, and Harry is both
Lily's and James' son. Dealing with Harry as himself would require Snape to
process or revisit more emotional content than he cares to, and so this is
one reason he has subconsciously just allowed himself to slip back into
"James mode" when dealing with Harry.

I think Snape's task was to return to Voldemort, pretend to have been loyal
all these years, and resume spying. I think Dumbledore's anxiety is that the
temptation of Snape's old ways and power (for he would hardly have been an
effective spy unless he were highly placed) might be very strong. I think
the glitter in Snape's eyes is what Porphyria analyzed it to be--for Snape's
eyes glitter whenever he is being angry, cruel, or calculating; to see it
there, as he goes to do his task, worries Dumbledore.

I think if Harry had not escaped from Voldemort, Snape would be toast. He'd
never have a chance to open his mouth. But Voldemort now has desperate need
of a Plan B (egotists never believe that Plan A will go awry), and Snape is
a highly placed administrator at Hogwarts and a very useful card to show to
all the DEs who have just seen Harry best him yet again.

Okay, that's about all I can think of at the moment. For those of you who
have Heard All This Before, sorry. For those of you who have not, have at
it. Maybe I'll do up a What Will We Find Out About Snape poll.

~Amandageist, premier Snapologist