[HPforGrownups] Re: SHIPping Attitudes

[pennylin]

No: HPFGUIDX 55794

Hi --

Taking issue with my use of the word "conceded," Petra Pan said:

<<<<<<"Conceding?"

Interesting diction, Penny.  <eg>  Still 
sure you're not on a battleSHIP?>>>>>>>>>>>

Nah, it's a cruiseliner, a party boat.  You're welcome aboard anytime.  :--)

In my dictionary, "concede" means, among other things, "to acknowledge as true."  I think that's technically correct as to what Rowling did, but *better* word choice might actually have been *volunteered.*  In response to a question about Trio dynamics, JKR *volunteered* the tidbit about "certain feelings" between the *three* members of the Trio being foreshadowed.  Yes, I like that much better.  She could have stuck with generic "they're stronger together than apart" statements, but she *volunteered* the information that the romance angle extends to all 3 of them.  <sweet smile>

> "Chris [Columbus] has kind of
> foreshadowed in this second film
> what I don't do until the 4th book,
> which is, you get hints of certain
> feelings between the three of them
> ......that belong to a slightly
> more mature person."

See my interpretation is that if Harry is involved in this scenario (and he is or she would have said *two of the three* or just *two*), then surely some "certain [non-platonic] feelings" are running *to* and/or *from* Harry.  There's no Ginny or Cho involved in this equation.  She's talking about the Trio quite clearly.  Now, Pippin is correct: the feelings that run to and/or from Harry might well relate to Ron rather than Hermione.  <g>  But, I think the odds are at least as high that the feelings running to and/or from Harry will likely involve Hermione.

<<<<<<<The statement "they are platonic friends" proves nothing and disproves nothing.  Convenient, eh?>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, that's exactly *my* point, Petra.  It's the R/H crowd who are and have been so insistent that Rowling signed a death knell to H/H *forevermore* with the "they are platonic friends" quote.  

My view is that this statement was limited in scope, and, as you say, proves nothing and disproves nothing.  I also have the view that the recent DVD interview discussed above completely trumps the "platonic friends" quote in any case.  If they were and are forevermore platonic friends, then there is no *3* involved at all.  

<<<<<<<<<No acts of trumping here...no acts of concession either.  Heck, you can't even make a strong case for considering more than the minimum of one person actively having feelings from this quote alone.>>>>>>>>

As Stickbook pointed out, there must indeed be more than one person actively having "certain feelings" for JKR's statement to make sense.  I don't see how you can possibly argue that she would say *three* but only mean *one.*    

Turning to Pippin. .......... Okay, thanks for clarifying where you were headed with that argument.  I now see the thought progression, though I still disagree.  

<<<<<<<<Eh? Where did Rowling mention a "romance angle"? She said, 
"...you get hints of certain feelings between the three of them, that 
belong to a sort of a, a slightly more mature person." My point is,  
there's more than one sort of mature feeling.>>>>>>>>>>

So......... you think she was talking romantic feelings between Ron and Hermione but some other "mature feeling" as relates to Harry?  Hmmmmmmmm......sorry, but I can't quite buy that.  She says that Columbus foreshadowed in the CoS film "certain feelings" that she doesn't foreshadow much in the books until GoF.  I think it's reasonably clear that she's talking about the romance angle, especially as you watch the interview and see her expression and body language.   

<<<<<<<<<I was unclear about the GoF scene. Canon doesn't say that 
Harry and Hermione hugged at King's Cross, but I confess I 
have trouble imagining how to deliver a kiss on the cheek 
without some additional contact. Anyway, JKR could have made 
it clear whether they hugged or not, but she didn't. Must not be 
important ;-)>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No, you're right.  I think she was most interested in highlighting the *kiss* ..... any additional body contact necessary to achieve a kiss on the cheek was secondary in importance to her (and/or to Harry, who is actually the one highlighting the kiss, technically speaking).

<<<<<<How does all this lead to a big R/H moment?  Harry and 
Hermione have had a big friendly hug on the screen, and a "very 
platonic friends"  kiss at King's Cross.>>>>>>>>>>

Er.......who's to say what was running through Hermione's head when she gave him that kiss?  Yes, they were not boyfriend/girlfriend when she kissed him........but maybe she wanted to be?  If we're going to mix in movie with canon, then I must say, Radcliffe did not do a very good job of conveying "platonic" interest in Hermione in that final scene -- that big cheezy grin as he saw Hermione running toward him was priceless.  I overheard at least one person say, "what....do they *both* like her?"  

<<<A subsequent hug  or kiss won't automatically signal a turn in their relationship. OTOH, Ron and Hermione have been kept apart, except for that awkward  little moment in PoA.   It'll be much more romantic when they fall into each others arms  if they've never done it before.>>>>>>>

But, sticking strictly with the books (and not mixing in movie contamination), the boys have had one awkward hug each from Hermione.  The reactions of Harry and Ron were identical (horror and terror in equal parts).  I don't see that there's any real "foreshadowing" of later romantic involvement for one pairing over the other, with reference to the hugs.  The only difference thus far is that Hermione kissed Harry (and we don't know *exactly* why) and we have no evidence that she has ever kissed Ron.  :--)

Penny










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]