Life debts

[maria_kirilenko]

No: HPFGUIDX 56266

Darrin wrote:
 
> Lost in all this is that I'm not sure Snape owes a magically-
binding 
> debt to James, the same way Pettigrew now does to Harry.

Just. I don't think that Dumbledore has ever said that Snape owes a 
life-debt to James. But then we only have one case of life-debt 
creation... <perks up> But my theory can still hold, right?


> It is entirely possible that Snape, who knew more curses than 
>anyone  else, could have escaped from Lupin. 

Hmmm. James apparently didn't think so. And I don't think so either. 
But the logistics of the whole event, as well as the way the trap-
door works in there, are way beyond me. 

There's this quote: 
"And then the tunnel began to rise; moments later it twisted,
and Crookshanks had gone. Instead, Harry could see a patch of dim
light through a small opening."

And this one:
"Harry pulled himself out of the hole, staring around."

Lupin said: "Snape glimpsed me, though, at the end of the tunnel."

That means that the tunnel turned sharply right before the entrance 
to the Shack, and that it's connected to the Shack via a *hole* in 
the Shack's floor.

But then, assuming that there are magical wards or a hinged trapdoor, 
how could Snape be in danger if he hadn't actually entered the SS? 
And, according to Lupin's statement, he hadn't entered it.

That third quote I also don't understand. What does "At the end of 
the tunnel" mean? That Lupin was in the tunnel, or that Lupin was in 
the SS, and Snape saw him through the opening?

Anyway, I don't think that it really matters. Since James obviously 
saved Snape's life, as even Snape admits it, then either those wards 
were "turned off" for some reason, such as a midnight romp in the 
Forbidden Forest, or Lupin was actually in the tunnel. So, I suppose 
the logistics aren't really as screwed up as they appear to be (to 
me, at least).

But, the main thing is, since everyone says that James saved his 
life, then it's probably true. Lupin also said: 

"but your father, who'd heard what Sirius
had done, went after Snape and pulled him back, at great risk to
his life"


>It is also possible that James snatching the back of Snape's robes 
>and saying, "Look, man, you can't go there" isn't enough to kick in 
>the magic debt.

I think that Snape was in danger, and since the tunnel turned sharply 
right before its end, then Snape probably wouldn't have had a whole 
lot of time to take his wand out and the Stupefy Lupin... if that's 
even possible.

 
> Publicly, Snape refuses to acknowledge anything James did. He 
> dismisses it in front of Harry, which contradicts what Dumbledore 
> says about Snape feeling like he needed to save Harry to be at 
>peace with his hatred of James.

Does it? I don't think it does.

 
> Couple of ideas how Snape could be thinking: 
> 
> 1) Snape just refuses to give Harry the satisfaction of thanking 
his 
> father. He'll never admit the debt to Harry.

Ah, but he admits it. He says that James was saving his own life as 
much as Snape's, but that's still admitting it.

 
> 2) Snape isn't admitting it to himself. When he tells Harry that he 
> doesn't owe James squat, he means it. He might be telling himself 
> that he just did what any teacher should do when he saved Harry at 
> the Quidditch match. Dumbledore, who knows what goes on in that 
> greasy head, has made a good guess as to the real reason. 

That's probably how it is. But he fact remains that he *does* owe 
James his life.

 
> Frankly, I think Snape is more interesting if there isn't some 
> magical life-debt going on here and this is driven by some twisted 
> logical code of honor. As the books progress and we get more 
> theories, I find I want motivations of the major characters to be 
> less driven by magic and more driven by their characters.

The thing is that in the books, JKR often uses magical devices to 
show what's going on in people's heads and their motivations instead 
of pshychology. The Mirror of Erised is one thing. Yes, Harry wants a 
family, and yes, it's enough to cut him off from reality, but instead 
of delving into the realm of pshychology and analysis of Harry, JKR 
gives us a magical device and *shows* us all this. Er, someone said 
this so much better than I did...

Yes, Snape driven by a code of honor is a good thing. It's very 
appealing and interesting. But we can have both, can't we? 

Anyway, I hope all this makes sense. I'm getting kicked off the 
computer, so I can't even double-check everything.
 
> Darrin
> -- Murder Ick would be a great name for a band. Send your royalties 
> to Maria.

Aw... :) I'm flattered. Would Life Debt be a good name for a band?

Maria, wishing a Happy Easter to those who celebrate it today, and a 
great day to everyone else.