The Living Philosopher's Stone (Was: Re: The Spiritual Symbolism of HP)

[mongo62aa]

No: HPFGUIDX 56303

What about the fifth day of 'Chymical Wedding'?  When CRC arises in 
the morning, he explores the castle, and arrives at a strange door.  
Opening it, he passes through a very dark passage to an open door, 
leading to a place of death.  CRC is terrified.  Passing through it 
he observes the sepulchre of the goddess Venus, within which he 
witnesses things not meant to be seen by mortals.  Exiting from the 
door, still frightened, he is discovered by Cupid, Venus' son, who 
draws blood from his hand.  Cupid informs CRC that he shall soon end 
his days.

CRC then witnesses a ceremony, led by the Virgin, involving 42 men 
and an image of a Phoenix.  He then passes over water on a ship, and 
the wound on CRC's hand is directly compared to the wound on his 
head, from his dream on the first day.

They reach the Tower of Olympus, where CRC engages in various potions-
related activities.  The day ends with CRC observing seven flames 
passing over the water onto the top of the Tower, which frightens him 
greatly.

What are we to make of this?  I find it interesting how this matched 
with several posts that I and others made at FictionAlly Park, before 
this thread started.

******

http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/showthread.php?
s=053961e35d2e4f9c9441af1fdfd2c28b&threadid=30485

Post #1 Bill

Is the 'Whole New Area' the 'Land of the Dead'? 

Like many people, I read the `summary' of Order of the Phoenix with 
great interest. One line in particular caught my attention, because 
it seems to pull together several facts that had already been 
revealed by JKR in various interviews: 

>>But at night it's even worse, because then he dreams of a single 
door in a silent corridor. And this door is somehow more terrifying 
than every other nightmare combined.<<

The following quotes are concerned with the fear of death and the 
origin of ghosts, and with Harry's discovery of `a whole new area, a 
magical world'. 

http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/thismo...ing_001023.html  

Q: I do hear that in the fifth volume, that's about to come out, that 
Harry is going to have to deal with death. 

Rowling: Harry has already dealt with death, of course. He lost his 
parents very young, in book four he witnessed a murder, which is a 
very disturbing thing. So this is not news to anybody who has been 
following the series, that death is a central theme of the books. 
But, yes, I think it would be fair to say that in book five he has to 
examine exactly what death means, in even closer ways. But I don't 
think people who have been following the series will be that 
surprised by that. 

http://www.mugglenet.com/aolchat1.shtml 

Q: Why do some wizards/witches become ghosts and others don't? 

Rowling: Another superb question, and this time I can tell you that 
you will find out much more about that in book five. 

http://www.cbc.ca/programs/sites/ho...ngcomplete.html 

Q: It seems like almost through your books you miss your mom and 
you're dealing with that conversation like Harry, just seeing the 
shadow but it can never come back. 

Rowling: Dealing with bereavement is a strong part of the books. 
Dealing with loss. Yes. I can't elaborate as much as I'd like to on 
that because I have three more books to go and this is not a sales 
pitch, you can get them out of the library and you don't have to buy 
them, I'm just saying that I will ruin future books if I elaborate on 
that too much. But it's a strong central theme - dealing with death, 
yeah, and facing up to death. 

Q: In one of the books Dumbledore says "Death is just the next step 
to a great mystery, the next great adventure" I think is the quote. 

Rowling: I would like to
I'm not as wise as him. I would like to see 
it that way. And I do see it that way, in many ways. Death still 
frightens me, as it frightens most people. Because there's still lots 
I want to do, and I don't want to leave my daughter early. 

http://www.mugglenet.com/aolchat1.shtml 

Q: Can you say ANYTHING about the next book? 

Rowling: Yes... it probably won't be as long as book four. It will be 
scary. Harry finds out a lot of things he hasn't stumbled across so 
far. 

http://www.mugglenet.com/ewinterview1.shtml 

Q: This book is quite the wide screen epic, with the Quidditch World 
Cup, the arrival of rival schools, the Triwizard Tournament, the 
ending battle... 

Rowling: Everything is on a bigger scale. 

Q: Intentional? 

Rowling: Yes. It's symbolic. Harry's horizons are literally and 
metaphorically widening as he grows older. But also there are places 
in the world that I've been planning for so long and thinking about 
for so long that we haven't yet explored, and it's great fun. That 
will happen in book 5, too; we go into a whole new area, physically, 
an area you've never seen before, a magical world. 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern in these quotes? 

It looks to me that OotP is likely to have an important plot thread 
concerning Harry's nighttime journeys into the `Land of the Dead' – 
possibly first in dreams, and then physically. My guess is that he 
starts having recurring dreams of the terrifying door in the silent 
corridor. Maybe, the first time he has the dream, he only sees it at 
a distance, but each time he dreams, it gets closer and closer, and 
eventually, in his dream he reaches out to open it... and wakes up. 
Then, when he can't sleep and is wandering around the silent, 
darkened castle, he stumbles across the door... 

Well, we'll find out in June. 

Bill

Post #4 TeaWithVoldie

Actually this has been a long theory of mine as well. I always 
thought that Harry might experience death for itself and enter the 
next dimension. And he might even discover something their to he 
could use for defeating the Dark Lord and even meet his parents. This 
is what I thought when Jk said Harry would experience a whole new 
Magical world that he has never set foot in. 

As well I have another theory. The Otherworld theory which lies 
behind this scary door. I think Harry will step into an Otherworld, 
Which is in celtic Mythology is said to be filled with magical 
creatures and Spirits. Some of these otherworlds are like hells and 
Evil spirits and creatures live there. 

And Guess what entails in this Celtic Myth... On the night of the 
31st of October the barriers of these worlds are opened or weakened 
and the spirits and creatures come out.

Post #7 Bill

I can't believe that I forgot about another clue – the cover of the 
American edition of OotP. The artist had read the book before 
painting it, and her other covers all had something to do with the 
story. 

So what do we have? 

The colour scheme is almost monochromatic blue, and the lettering 
for `and the Order of the Phoenix' is a whispy blue-white. This sets 
a mood of `spookiness' right off the bat. 

Harry is standing in front of three partly open doors. There may be a 
fourth door, just visible at the extreme left of the image. The wall 
that they are set in seems to be curved, but this may be some kind of 
visual distortion. A long row of lit candles, with blue flames, is 
emerging from the left-most door of the three, circling around Harry, 
and leaving through the central door. Harry has his wand out, and is 
looking behind him, upwards and to the right of our point of view. 

In Harry's dream, there was one door, at the end of a corridor. 

My guess is that Harry has passed through that door, and is in some 
sort of antechamber with a multitude of doors, one of which leads 
back to the corridor in Hogwarts, and the others leading to who-knows-
where. The candles, with their blue flames, are reminiscent of the 
candles at Nearly Headless Nick's Deathday party, so at least two of 
the doors may be associated with ghosts somehow. 

I like TeaWithVoldy's idea that we may be dealing with an OtherWorld, 
which is particularly accessable on Halloween. It could be that the 
cover image depicts Harry's first physical passage though the door, 
on that day.

Post #9 Bill

Notice that the candles leave 'motion trails' behind them, in the 
same direction that their flames are trailing. I do not believe that 
the flames are being bent by a wind, but that the candles themselves 
are moving around Harry. Also, I noticed that there are no candles 
visible between the outer edge of the central door, and the right-
hand edge of the left-hand doorway. If the candles had formed a 
complete circle around Harry, there should have been at least a few 
candles there. 

My best guess is that they are emerging from the left-hand doorway, 
moving around Harry, and leaving via the central doorway.

Post #10 Bill

Another thought occurred to me, about the floating candles. I suspect 
that they are very significant to the story. 

The `regular' floating candles in the Great Hall are white, with 
yellow flames. The floating candles in the Deathday party are black, 
with blue flames. And the floating candles on the American cover of 
OotP are white, with blue flames – a combination of the two types, 
but since the colour of the flames seems to me to be more important 
than the colour of the candle itself, I would say that they are more 
alike to the Deathday candles than the regular candles. 

Another possible significant feature about the PotP candles is that 
the leave a `motion trail' behind them. This may be important. I do 
not recall any other object on a Harry Potter cover leaving a motion 
trail, even when they are clearly in motion. (I don't have the covers 
in front of me, however – I'm just going by memory) Maybe they are 
not leaving motion trails at all, but something else. Could they be 
not actual, physical candles at all, but rather `ghost candles' of 
some sort? 

If I recall my mythology correctly, some cultures thought the souls 
of the Dead could take the form of floating candles or flames. There 
is a version of that in the old tales of the `swamp candles', which 
are supposed to hypnotise unwary travellers at night and lead them to 
their deaths by drowning, whereupon they become candles themselves. 
Tolkien included this idea in his description of the `Dead Marshes', 
but the idea is ancient. 

Could the floating candles on the cover of OotP represent the souls 
of the Dead? Maybe.

Post #13 TeaWithVoldie

Interesting stuff. I'm doing some research at the moment so bear with 
me. This is from an essay which explore the history, science and 
writings and myth of St Elmos fire. "Ghostly blue flames" which 
sailors said that the patron st was protecting them at sea. 

the fire of St Elmo 

The storm watch had been set, and all hands awaited the onset of the 
tempest that raged to windward. Rushing ahead of gale winds, heavy 
seas rocked the brig. Then suddenly, at the mastheads and bowsprit, 
ghostly blue flames leapt into the somber night, lighting the masts 
like candles. The atmosphere of dread anticipation split at the 
sight. The sailors to a man breathed a sigh of relief, for their 
patron saint Elmo had come to watch over the brig and see her safely 
through the storm. 

St. Elmo's Fire has long served as an omen of heavenly intervention 
to sailors. The ancient Greeks termed a single jet of the fire, 
Helena, and a double jet, Castor and Pollux. 

Blah, blah, blah 

Darwin wrote in a letter to J.S. Henslow that one night when the 
Beagle was anchored in the estuary of the Rio Plata: "Everything was 
in flames, the sky with lightning, the water with luminous particles, 
and even the very masts were pointed with a blue flame." 

Physical descriptions of St. Elmo's Fire have ranged from a ghostly 
dancing flame to natural fireworks. It usually is of a blue or bluish-
white colour attached to fixed, grounded conductors and has a 
lifetime of minutes. The flame is heatless and non-consuming, 
occasionally accompanied by a hissing sound. These latter properties 
promote the myths of spiritual presence. The biblical burning bush 
that was not consumed may have been displaying one form of St. Elmo's 
Fire. 

Random but interesting information. Could The OOTP be something which 
is protecting Harry? 

"[A] ghostly flame which danced among our sails and later stayed like 
candlelights to burn brightly from the mast....When he appears, there 
can be no danger" 

AND......... 

>From Bram Stokers Dracula:- 

Suddenly, away on our left I saw a fain flickering blue flame. The 
driver saw it at the same moment. He at once checked the horses, and, 
jumping to the ground, disappeared into the darkness. I did not know 
what to do, the less as the howling of the wolves grew closer. But 
while I wondered, the driver suddenly appeared again, and without a 
word took his seat, and we resumed our journey. I think I must have 
fallen asleep and kept dreaming of the incident, for it seemed to be 
repeated endlessly, and now looking back, it is like a sort of awful 
nightmare. Once the flame appeared so near the road, that even in the 
darkness around us I could watch the driver's motions. He went 
rapidly to where the blue flame arose, it must have been very faint, 
for it did not seem to illumine the place around it at all, and 
gathering a few stones, formed them into some device.

Then as time went on, and I had got somewhat bolder, I asked him of 
some of the strange things of the preceding night, as for instance, 
why the coachman went to the places where he had seen the blue 
flames. He then explained to me that it was commonly believed that on 
a certain night of the year, last night, in fact, when all evil 
spirits are supposed to have unchecked sway, a blue flame is seen 
over any place where treasure has been concealed. 

http://www.mysterylights.com/types/wisp/ 

Interesting, very interesting. 

This candles could be leading Harry into the room of the OOTP. And I 
have a feeling that the OOTP isn't a good thing.

Post #14 Bill

Here is some more information that I dredged up about phantom candle-
flames. 

http://wintersteel.homestead.com/Co...and_Lights.html 

Corpse Candles 

Death Omens in Folklore of Whales and elsewhere in the British Isles. 
Corpse candles, or canwll corfe, as they are called in Welsh, are 
mysterious lights which bob over the ground and stop at houses or 
other sites where a death is eminent. Similar lights are called Fetch 
candles in Ireland and Northern England. They seem to be similar to 
the corpse light phosphorescence, but differ in that they have the 
distant appearance of candle flames. 

Corpse candles are seen floating through the air at night. Beliefs 
about them vary in locale. They are said to warn of the death of 
those who see them, or of someone beloved or someone else known to 
the party. They appear, it is said, halfway between the doomed 
person's home and his grave. In South Hampshire, England the lights 
are said to accompany the souls of the departed, and are extinguished 
when the souls leave the earth. Ghostly funerals are said to 
accompany some lights. 

In Welsh lore, a small, pale or bluish corpse candle presages the 
death of an infant, while a big light presages the death of an adult. 
Multiple corpse candles reveal the number of persons soon to die. If 
the lights are approached, they vanish. Corpse candles are widely 
reported in Welsh coastal regions. 

Corpse Lights 

Phosphorescent lights seen floating about the air at night, which are 
believed to be harbingers of death. They are white, red or blue, and 
are seen both indoors and outdoors. They hug the ground, float in the 
air, hover over the roof of the doomed, or appear over the chest of 
the doomed. Corpse lights are called by various names, including 
Corpse Candles, Jack-O'-Lantern, ignis fatuus, corposant, fetch-
candles and fetch lights. Since they often appear in marshy areas, 
the lights may be produced by marsh gas. Another possible explanation 
is that they may be produced by atmospheric conditions. Nonetheless, 
numerous accounts exist in folklore of their seemingly supernatural 
appearance. 

http://magick.wirefire.com/newpage133.htm 

Corpse candles, called canwyll corph in Gaelic, are phantom lights or 
portents of a death. Corpse candles have a long history of legend and 
lore in Wales. People describe them as mysterious lights that hover 
over the body of a person shortly before dying. Corpse candles are 
also said to waft over the roofs of houses when a death occurs 
inside, or on the very spot before a fatal accident happens. Many 
claim corpse candles will appear on a route at night, before the 
funeral procession of the next day. 

There are numerous web pages with similar descriptions, many with 
accounts of particular encounters.

Post #17 willowfairy81

Bill , 

I really really liked your theory and the evidence you've provided is 
very intriguing. To tell the truth, when I saw the (American) cover 
for OotP, I was quite shocked to find it so spooky and yes, ghost-
like. The atmosphere is very reminicent of Nick's Deathday Party with 
the blue candle flames (etc). 

Also, I don't know why, but I think Jk Rowling's books are quite 
philosophical, and from the "death is the next great adventure" 
quote, I think she wants to reassure her fans (and herself) that 
death is not "goodbye" but "see you later." So if Harry does 
encounter his parents (& Cedric, etc) in the "land of the dead" than 
he'd be more assured of his destiny in life and his role in the 
upcoming battle against Voldemort. 

The sad thing for me, however, is that this is NOT an original idea. 
If anyone's read Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy than 
you know what'd I'm talking about. 

I just don't want JkR to be accused of *********

******

Does this possibly tie together with the perspective gained from 
the `Chymical Marriage'?

Bill