SHIP: Re: Harry, Hermione & Ron

[C M]

No: HPFGUIDX 74869

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "greatelderone" 
<greatelderone at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "C M" <cmurph18 at y...> wrote:
>>>GEO: Probably because Harry's attention was still on the kiss and 
the story is told from his limited pov so he wouldn't have noticed 
Hermione being furious when Fleur was kissing him since he would be 
distracted. It was only after the kiss that he noticed that Hermione 
was furious while at the same time Fleur was kissing Ron.<<<

Me: We're never going to agree on this. I stand by my reading of the 
situation. If Hermione was looking furious because of the Harry kiss, 
he could have noticed it when Fleur first turned her attention toward 
Ron. Instead, we hear how furious Hermione looks after Fleur kisses 
Ron. I think that's intentional and I think it's there to indicate 
that Hermione is interested in Ron.


>>>GEO: Tension does not equal future relationship. Imo the R/H 
shippers are playing right into her hands by believing that the Katie 
Couric interview was a confirmation on her part. If anything that was 
a dodge by Rowling.<<<

Me: How is it a dodge when *she's* the one who brought Ron into it? 
Again, we're not going to agree here. And suggesting I'm "playing 
into her hands" isn't going to "scare" me into abandoning the ship. I 
suppose her negative response to the H/H question was her way of 
faking you out? Good thing you saw right through it.


>>>GEO:But why be impatient? It was not exactly her business and as 
you stated she was more "intellectually ruled". So I find it 
confusing that Hermione would be impatient to find out if he was 
going out with Cho.<<<

Me: We saw how utterly clueless Harry is in this scene. Hermione 
seems to be trying to dispense her advice without flat out telling 
Harry just how horrible he is about this Girl/Boy stuff. There are 
references to her looking at Harry and Ron with a "pitying 
expression," trying not to roll her eyes, and there's the fact that 
she checks that Harry was nice to Cho. To her (as well as to many of 
us, I'd guess), Cho's state of mind (and therefore how Harry should 
have acted toward her) is fairly obvious. But Harry doesn't get it. 
Even after their conversation, he *still* doesn't seem to get it. If 
I had just explained a bunch of stuff to a guy friend about the girl 
he likes and then asked if he was going to see her again 
(meaning "date") and his answer indicated that he thought I was being 
literal, I think I'd be a little impatient, too.

Also, what can we make of her responses to Ron in this scene? While 
she tries to be diplomatic with Harry, she's rather snotty/nasty to 
Ron about his unawareness. He makes a bit of a joke about how kissing 
should "cheer [Cho] up," and she calls him an insensitive wart. He 
expresses disbelief about Cho's complicated feelings and she insults 
him for his lack of emotional range. Pretty strong, biting responses 
for a guy she doesn't have any feelings for.

 
>>>GEO:Then why is it that she is impatient in one moment while in 
the next she becomes distant. If anything the change occurs when she 
knows that Harry is going to go out with Cho. Now then if she didn't 
have an emotional connection why would she become distant and 
businesslike when she learns that Harry has plans with Cho unless she 
wants to conceal her emotions.<<<

Me: (Pg. 460, American): "Oh well," said Hermione distantly, *buried 
in her letter once more,* "you'll have plenty of opportunities to ask 
her..."

She's gone back to writing to Viktor, her head's not completely in 
the Harry/Cho situation anymore (hence, "distantly"). And she's 
described as being businesslike at the very start of the 
conversation, and I've already stated my opinion on why that is.


>>In regards to Ron and Hermione, their friendship is nothing 
compared to the one shared by Harry and Hermione. Those two finish 
each others sentences, know what the other is thinking and when they 
argue they actually argue at relevant and valid issues and are quick 
to reconcile in contrast to the Ron and Hermione friendship which is 
marked by petty bickering and a lack of communication and knowledge 
of the other.<<<

Me: What do we really know about Ron and Hermione's friendship, 
though? We see most things through Harry's POV; he wasn't at 
Grimmauld Place all summer, he isn't at the Prefect meetings, he's 
not in the Common Room during detention with Umbridge or Occlumency 
with Snape. We have very little information on how Ron and Hermione 
interact when Harry isn't there. All we do know is that they do have 
a tendency to hang out together even when he's not around (so he's 
not necessarily their "glue"). Honestly, I don't think we know enough 
to make any assumptions.
 

>>>GEO: The H/G ship is pretty much sunk since Ginny has grown out of 
her crush. If it even begins then it begins incredibly flawed since 
the two are forced together by Ron who wants them to date at the end 
of Ootp. If anything else Ginny still sees Harry as the champion who 
banished Voldemort as a baby and when she got a glimpse of the very 
real and angry Harry she didn't like it all.<<<

Me: I disagree that it's sunk. Another poster has already indicated 
why OotP could actually be seen as "saving" the H/G ship, given that 
Ginny no longer sees Harry as "The Boy Who Lived" but as a person. 
And the fact that he was angry and she didn't seem to like it hardly 
means that they're a 'no go.' There's a lot more to Harry than his 
temper, and she knows that.

Also, Ron making a comment to Ginny while shooting a look at Harry 
hardly indicates that he's going to "force them together." I don't 
think Ron has any measure of control over the two of them, much less 
enough to make them date.

This whole discussion, I feel, has gone on much longer than it should 
have. We both know damn well that we're not going to change each 
other's minds on this. The plain fact is that we disagree, and we've 
proven ourselves very capable of both supporting our opinions and 
countering each other's arguments. Clearly, we're going to have to 
wait it out to see what happens. In the meantime, I'm going to 
attempt to give the great shipper debate a rest. After all, there's a 
lot more to the books than who ends up with who.

CM