[HPforGrownups] Snape favoring Slytherin (was Re: Harry in Snape's DADA?)

[Wendy St John]

No: HPFGUIDX 76201

I wrote: 

> But until I see some canon showing that he really *does* 
favour the Slytherins (by awarding gratuitous house points, 
or by grading unfairly in their favour), I refuse to believe 
that he actually *is* favouring them. I think this is one area 
in which he's not getting the credit he deserves for being - 
dare I say it? - fair. >>> 

Severus "from evil" Snape replied:

"Wendy, do you remember Snape removing points from Hermione for being 
a show off know it all? Or the time he removes points from Harry 
for having a library book outside of Hogwarts? Any time Harry or 
friends are caught defending themselves against a Slytherin, be it 
provoked or not Griffyndor always is the house to lose points."

Now me again (Wendy):

Well, yes, I remember those things (vividly <g>). And just in case my
memory was faulty, I looked them up in the canon as well. <g>  And I was
going to reply to this, but then I noticed that K had already done so:

"That's not Snape *favouring* Slytherin that's him *discriminating* against
Gryffindor - actually to be more accurate that's him discriminating against
the trio who haven't exactly gone out of their way to impress him what with
the constant cheek and the breaking into his storeroom and such - not that I
think they usually deserve what he does for them but he does have some good
reasons for thinking the worst of them (after all while they may often have
the best of intentions they *are* usually up to something). And as for
taking the points away from hermione - she deserved it. She *was* being an
insufferable little show off, if Hermione insists on always answering
everything the others will just not bother trying, especially the
Gryffindors. There is some insentive for the Slytherins to keep trying,
after all they don't want Gryffindor to look good but the other Gryffs can
simply say well Hermione's going to get it anyway why bother."

Now me (Wendy) again:

Exactly, K. (And thanks for getting my back <g>). To which I'll add that
*if* we say that Gryffindor is, indeed, being discriminated against, it
favours not only Slytherin, but also Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. More
importantly, it is very much a matter of opinion as to just how much
"discrimination" is actually going on here. If we look at the points taken
by Snape in PS/SS, I think the case for discrimination is pretty weak: in
the first potions lesson, Snape takes 1 point away from Harry for "cheek."
(page 103, UK hardcover). Unfair? Yes, probably. Harry *was* cheeky, but
I'll also admit that he was provoked by an unwarranted attack by Snape. In
that same potion's lesson (page 104), Snape takes a point away from Harry
for not telling Neville not to add quills to his potion. This one is
blatantly unfair. But it's still only *2* points. Then,  Snape takes 5
points from Harry for having the book outside of the school. (page 134).
I'll give you this one, too. Seems like Snape probably did make that rule
up, and is just being a git. When the winner of the house cup ends the year
with more than 400 points, it's difficult for me to swallow that Snape's
taking 7 points away is being overly discriminatory. Unfair - yes.
Heinously unfair? Nope. 

However, the other example to which you allude (at least I assume this is
the one about which you're talking) is when, right before Christmas, Snape
takes 5 points from Ron after Ron *physically attacks* Draco. (Page 144).
Yes, Draco insulted Ron's family. Sure, that wasn't very nice of Draco. The
guy's a git. We already knew that, though. And escalating to a physical
attack is, in my mind, *much* worse. If I'd been McGonagall and I walked in
on that, I'd have taken far more than 5 points from Ron. I think Snape was
very lenient here. The only other instances of point taking I can recall
off the top of my head are in PoA - Snape takes 10 points from Harry for
being late to class (page 127, UK hardcover), and then takes 5 more when
Harry refuses to follow Snape's command to sit down. While it's true that
Lupin most likely wouldn't have taken those points, I fail to see how Snape
can be criticised for doing so. Harry was late. Harry refused to follow
instructions. Also in this class, Snape takes the five points from Hermione
(page 129) that K has already addressed . As she pointed out, Hermione is
hardly in a position to complain about these points. She also didn't follow
Snape's instructions. Is he being a git? YES. Yes, I think he's being a
git. But they are also defying his authority, and I don't fault him for
taking points to restore his authority in the classroom. I repeat - I think
he's being a git. I just don't think he's being an *unfair* git. And there
are also a few instances that come to my mind when Snape didn't take points
at all when he probably could have - for example, when he found Harry and
Ron after they flew the car to Hogwarts at the beginning of CoS. He went to
get McGonagall and Dumbledore. If he was really bent on taking point, I
don't see why he couldn't have docked them each a couple of hundred points
before going for D and McG. I think you could make a very good argument
that they'd have deserved to lose those points, had Snape chosen to take
them. <g> I know I'm missing other instances where Snape takes points, but
I think they'd still all fit within my argument.

Here's what I think is happening: we're reading this from Harry's point of
view, and he thinks Snape is being unfair. By telling the story this way,
JKR (in typically sneaky fashion) has also managed to convince *us* that
Snape is being unfair. But he really isn't, not usually. And the times that
he is unfair, the actualy point total that he's taken away is negligible.
(Compare Snape's actions to the points McGonagall takes away when she's
taking points). JKR wants us to see this through Harry's eyes, and take on
Harry's judgments against Snape, and so we do - at least until we look a
bit more closely at what is actually happening. Does Ron feel unfairly
treated when Snape takes the points? I'm sure he does. Draco insulted him,
and Draco wasn't punished. Therefore, Snape's unfair. But the fact is (at
least the way I see it) that Ron physically attacked another student, and
deserved to have points taken. Whether or not Draco also deserved points
taken is arguable. Frankly, I think Ron's behaviour was *much* worse than
Draco's, and since Ron was only docked 5 points, it seems a fair resolution
to the conflict, whether or not Ron and Harry agree (and let's remember
that Harry has wrongfully accused Snape of evil intentions over and over
and over again. And, his refusal to see Snape in anything but the most
negative light was, IMO, a large factor contributing to Sirius' death). Ron
and Harry can think Snape is unfair all they want. But when I read the
text, and analyze Snape's actions from outside the "filter" of Harry's
perspective, I don't think Snape is being even remotely as unfair as they
accuse him of being.

I think another factor here is simply the fact that the house system
creates competition and division. It's obvious to me that Snape is not the
only teacher/Head of House who is interested in having his house win the
house cup. It is important enough to McGonagall that she took steps which
"bent the rules" in order to promote her own house's  chances of winning
(giving Harry a place on the Quidditch team and allowing him, as a first
year student, to have his own broom. A broom which, in all likelihood, she
purchased for him). It seems to me that the house system by its very nature
sets up this sort of competiton, and I don't think it's fair to say that
Snape is trying to promote his own house at the expense of the others
without acknowledging that this is the way the system functions, and the
other Heads of House are probably equally as interested in having their
houses win. 

Finally, after having said all this, I notice that my original
question/concern has still not be addressed at all: 

Great elder one wrote:

"And remember many of the "top" students in Snape's potions class 
didn't earn their positions, but got them because they were 
Slytherins and thus favored by Snape."

Now me again:

I have still seen absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this is true. In
fact, we have evidence to the contrary (that Hermione beat out Draco in
*every* exam). I'm still waiting for someone to make an argument (backed up
with canon) that any student in Snape's class owes his or her position to
Snape's favouritism. I think I'm gonna be waiting for a long time, though,
because I just don't think there's any canon to prove this. Not within the
first five books, anyhow. Please, if you have some, post it. I'll be happy
to admit that I'm wrong about this if someone can actually convince me that
I am. That hasn't happened yet, though. 

To sum up: Snape is a git. But he is not a heinously unfair git, and we
have little or no evidence at all that he shows favouritism to the
Slytherins, or that any of them have a higher position in class rank than
they deserve based on Snape's favouritism. 

Cheers! 
Wendy