Tactics & Prescience (was Why Bella didn't disapparate/ OOP Az. effects)
KathyK
zanelupin at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 10 04:04:06 UTC 2003
No: HPFGUIDX 76335
demetra1225:
> > Perhaps Dumbledore didn't "kill" Sirius, maybe he
> > volunteered.
>
Brief Chronicles:
> Okay, I either agree or disagree with this. ;) Shocked?
>
> My reason to disagree: From what I've seen, we have Remus the
thinker who has to keep his emotions in check at all times (probably
because of his secret), we have Peter the betrayer who is afraid of
his destiny, and we have Sirius the lover who acts based on his
emotions and without thinking. We don't know enough about James yet
to place him. This is how I view the friends. If Sirius is the lover
who acts on his emotions without much forward thinking (as we've seen
him be in much of his on-screen time, especially in OoP), then I have
a hard time imagining him volunteering to die like that. In fact, I
can hear him saying, "Why can't it be Severus?" :) Also, I believe
that he'd go to Harry with tears and a hug at some strange moment if
he knew ahead of time he was going to die. And (forgive me, I don't
have a moment to go through the book right now), wasn't it DD who
said he didn't think Sirius wanted to die? I can accept that perhaps
DD planned Sirius' death (although it hurts to think about), but I
have a hard time seeing Sirius accepting it himself.
>
> Now, my reason to agree: :) It would make a really emotional
story told in flashback if JKR wanted to give us one. DD could spill
the beans, we could all have a great, big cry, and maybe even Harry's
loyalty could be swayed by the harsh reality.
>
> But I think I lean more toward my reason to disagree. :)
>
> What are other opinions?
>
> Brief Chronicles
I would very much like to agree that Sirius chose to die for Harry's
benefit, but like Brief Chronicles I have to lean toward diagreeing
with that theory. I have no doubt that Sirius would do most anything
to help Harry, including giving up his life for him. But I don't see
him making the decision to die before going to the DoM. For one,
Sirius would probably argue strongly that he could do more for Harry
alive than dead. As Talisman said in that amazing post (66983)
Sirius cares about Harry the person and cares about his happiness
while Dumbledore is most interested in (my crude understanding right
now as I don't have the post in front of me) how Harry fits into the
larger picture of defeating Voldemort. I also think Brief Chronicles
is right that Sirius would try to see Harry beforehand, and say
something to him.
Hypothetically, what would Dumbledore say to convince Sirius? I need
you out of the way to prepare Harry for what is to come. I need to
see if he's the one who can defeat Voldemort so you have to die and
Harry has to be tested. I don't think any reason Dumbledore would
give could convince Sirius to just let Bellatrix (or anyone) kill
him.
Plus, when would this discussion happen? How much planning would
have to go into it? Did Dumbledore know how EXACTLY things would
play out? That a fight would occur between the Order and the DE's
and in that fight Sirius would have to make sure he got killed by a
Death Eater in front of Harry? I just can't see it...
Ooh,ooh, I just thought of something! Probably others have thought
this, but I don't remember seeing anything (of course that doesn't
mean I didn't see it, just that I don't remember). Okay, what if
Remus "the thinker who has to keep his emotions in check at all
times" was the one who caused Sirius to die? I think Talisman
mentioned in Message #66983 that the second jet of light, the one
that hit Sirius, comes from a point of unknown origin. Reading OoP,
it gives the impression that Bellatrix hit him with the light, but it
does not say specifically. What if Remus is the one who hit Sirius
with a spell, causing him to fall through the veil (or allowing
Dumbledore to float him to it)?
I can see Dumbledore being able to reason with Lupin in this matter.
He would understand Dumbledore's reasoning. He could see that Sirius
is in the way. Okay, so maybe that seems quite callous that Lupin
could kill his good friend, but for Harry and for the greater good, I
think he could be swayed. But then maybe he couldn't do it when it
came down to it. What if he was supposed to hit Sirius with the
killing curse, but instead only stunned him? Dumbledore sees that
Sirius isn't dead and floats him beyond the veil.
When Harry wants to go after Dumbledore, Lupin has this understated
grief. Because he's lost his friend? Oh, sure, but maybe it's
because he knows he just contributed to his friends death?
Or maybe Dumbledore killed Sirius on his own but Lupin had an inkling
of what was to come?
KahtyK
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