Tactics & Prescience (was Why Bella didn't disapparate/ OOP Az. effects)

KathyK zanelupin at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 10 04:04:06 UTC 2003


No: HPFGUIDX 76335

demetra1225:

> > Perhaps Dumbledore didn't "kill" Sirius, maybe he 
> > volunteered.
> 

Brief Chronicles: 

> Okay, I either agree or disagree with this.  ;)  Shocked?
> 
> My reason to disagree: From what I've seen, we have Remus the 
thinker who has to keep his emotions in check at all times (probably 
because of his secret), we have Peter the betrayer who is afraid of 
his destiny, and we have Sirius the lover who acts based on his 
emotions and without thinking. We don't know enough about James yet 
to place him. This is how I view the friends. If Sirius is the lover 
who acts on his emotions without much forward thinking (as we've seen 
him be in much of his on-screen time, especially in OoP), then I have 
a hard time imagining him volunteering to die like that. In fact, I 
can hear him saying, "Why can't it be Severus?"  :)  Also, I believe 
that he'd go to Harry with tears and a hug at some strange moment if 
he knew ahead of time he was going to die. And (forgive me, I don't 
have a moment to go through the book right now), wasn't it DD who 
said he didn't think Sirius wanted to die? I can accept that perhaps 
DD planned Sirius' death (although it hurts to think about), but I 
have a hard time seeing Sirius accepting it himself.
> 
> Now, my reason to agree:  :)  It would make a really emotional 
story told in flashback if JKR wanted to give us one. DD could spill 
the beans, we could all have a great, big cry, and maybe even Harry's 
loyalty could be swayed by the harsh reality.
> 
> But I think I lean more toward my reason to disagree.  :)  
> 
> What are other opinions?
> 
> Brief Chronicles

I would very much like to agree that Sirius chose to die for Harry's 
benefit, but like Brief Chronicles I have to lean toward diagreeing 
with that theory.  I have no doubt that Sirius would do most anything 
to help Harry, including giving up his life for him.  But I don't see 
him making the decision to die before going to the DoM.  For one, 
Sirius would probably argue strongly that he could do more for Harry 
alive than dead.  As Talisman said in that amazing post (66983) 
Sirius cares about Harry the person and cares about his happiness 
while Dumbledore is most interested in (my crude understanding right 
now as I don't have the post in front of me) how Harry fits into the 
larger picture of defeating Voldemort.  I also think Brief Chronicles 
is right that Sirius would try to see Harry beforehand, and say 
something to him.  
Hypothetically, what would Dumbledore say to convince Sirius?  I need 
you out of the way to prepare Harry for what is to come.  I need to 
see if he's the one who can defeat Voldemort so you have to die and 
Harry has to be tested.  I don't think any reason Dumbledore would 
give could convince Sirius to just let Bellatrix (or anyone) kill 
him.  
Plus, when would this discussion happen?  How much planning would 
have to go into it?  Did Dumbledore know how EXACTLY things would 
play out?  That a fight would occur between the Order and the DE's 
and in that fight Sirius would have to make sure he got killed by a 
Death Eater in front of Harry?  I just can't see it...
Ooh,ooh, I just thought of something!  Probably others have thought 
this, but I don't remember seeing anything (of course that doesn't 
mean I didn't see it, just that I don't remember).  Okay, what if 
Remus "the thinker who has to keep his emotions in check at all 
times" was the one who caused Sirius to die?  I think Talisman 
mentioned in Message #66983 that the second jet of light, the one 
that hit Sirius, comes from a point of unknown origin.  Reading OoP, 
it gives the impression that Bellatrix hit him with the light, but it 
does not say specifically.  What if Remus is the one who hit Sirius 
with a spell, causing him to fall through the veil (or allowing 
Dumbledore to float him to it)?
I can see Dumbledore being able to reason with Lupin in this matter.  
He would understand Dumbledore's reasoning.  He could see that Sirius 
is in the way.  Okay, so maybe that seems quite callous that Lupin 
could kill his good friend, but for Harry and for the greater good, I 
think he could be swayed.  But then maybe he couldn't do it when it 
came down to it.  What if he was supposed to hit Sirius with the 
killing curse, but instead only stunned him?  Dumbledore sees that 
Sirius isn't dead and floats him beyond the veil.  
When Harry wants to go after Dumbledore, Lupin has this understated 
grief.  Because he's lost his friend?  Oh, sure, but maybe it's 
because he knows he just contributed to his friends death?  
Or maybe Dumbledore killed Sirius on his own but Lupin had an inkling 
of what was to come?

KahtyK 





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