Moral Clues - Liars and Murderers

[zesca]

No: HPFGUIDX 76787

"Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> Have you noticed that every (nearly every) time Harry lies, it's
> called a lie and usually includes a reflection of quilt and
> self-awareness of his action on Harry's part.

madeyemood:
No, I hadn't. This had been lurking in my subconscious. Thanks for making the 
thought conscious.


<big chunk removed> JKR want to constantly remind us, that Harry is
> aware that he is lying. 

madeyemood:
Good point.


bboy:
> Of course, common sense says Harry knows his
> statement is false, 

madeyemood:
How about the idea that knowing but not knowing can vary tremendously 
person to person? The ways that we see something about ourselves, and yet 
don't, can name it, but fail to act on it, tell ourselves something but part of us still doesn't believe it...


bboy:
> But he knows it in a much deeper sense; there is a
> part of him that is intimately aware that what he is doing is wrong.

madeyemood:
Yeah, but how big a part?


bboy: 
> In asense, when the narrative say, '...Harry lied' we are seeing a
> bit of Harry conscience peaking through.

> Also, notice in the latest book, now that Harry knows he must
> ultimately kill Voldemort or be kill by him, and even though he is
> well aware of how evil the Dark Lord is, and even knowing that he will
> probably have to kill Voldemort in the defense of his own life, Harry
> still calls it murder. He will have to murder or be murdered.

madeye:
Another good point. 

bboy:> 
> I think that is a very special insight into Harry's conscience too,
> and I think it should make us realize just what a horrible burden this
> Prophecy is. 

madeye:
The way you broke that down made that come through for me.

> I would prefer to think that Harry will vanquish and destroy
> Voldemort, not with a show of force, but with an unexpected act of
> mercy. 

madeye:
I like the way your comments fleshed out this hypothesis

bboy:
>the trouble is, I just don't know how JKR could ever maneuver
> Voldemort into a state of mind where that act of mercy would have that
> enormous impact on him. 

madeye:
I think it will happen in a way that's a play of forces, such as in martial arts 
when you allow the opponent to exhaust himself by indulging in his 
imbalances. (I'm trying to describe my vague intuition about how what you say 
in the paragraph below makes sense to me.) Perhaps JKR believes that the 
illness of imbalance (for ex, the inability to feel love, connection, compassion) 
ultimately leaves one vulnerable on the naked playing field of energetics. 
sheer bodacious power can go only so far (which is a distance considerable)  
that will ultimately be undermined, with a little luck, by the more integrated 
powers of good that are anchored in humane truths like it's better to love your 
neighbor than to zap him 'til he does your bidding.

bboy:
> One he other hand, if I am to maintain my
> faith in Harry and the principle he appears to stand for, there has to
> be some kind of passive vanquishing of Voldemort, but I don't have a
> clue what it could be.
> 
> Just a thought.

madeye:
Or maybe even more than one. Thanks for sharing.