[HPforGrownups] Re: GoF- Harry's Dream about Riddle House (long)

[The Crashing Boar]

No: HPFGUIDX 77114


  From: feetmadeofclay 
  <<snip>>>   Just sounds like a normal teenager to me :)

  Really?  Most teenagers lie to their friends and everyone they know about anything and everything?  

  Parents maybe ... but many have decent working relationships with their parents (who BTW aren't dumb as bricks and can tell when a kid is lying). 

  Sorry but I can't say it was average teenage behaviour... Because it simply isn't. <snip> Some kids are like that. On average most kids aren't 
  reflexive liars. People (and little CHILDREN TOO) tend to lie when they have something to gain.  <<snip>>
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  Or protect.

  As I said, this is a difficult transition time.  Most kids, due to increased hormone levels, suddenly start to feel more impassioned about the things around them (and not just about sex).  They also start to think more about their personal tastes, and sometimes something as simple as a musical preference or style of clothing can break up a life long friendship.  They are growing, and uncomfortable with changes to their own bodies, and the changes of feelings towards people around them.  So they cover up more and more of the things that as children they were candid about.  This is typical behaviour.  It is something that usually decreases as they get more confident with themselves.(Dawn)

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  <<Snip>>Sure but Harry was always capable of handling himself.  He was mature (unaturally so) and he knew right from wrong.  So that should continue unless he had a personality transplant over the summer.  

  Gone is boyscout!Harry - here is Teenager!Harry.... I find it hard to believe that the Harry we knew is going to grow over one month into the Harry that is.  
  <<<snip>>>
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  Hmm, so when a 'game' goes wrong, he sees a school mate murdered before his eyes, he is partly responsible (however unwillingly) for the return of Voldermort and with him the threat of destruction of society as he has come to know it, and is then completely seperated from everyone he has come to trust and rely on,  he just continues life as the same loveable schoolboy? (Dawn)

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  <<snip>>
  Since when does Harry reflect the behaviour around him? He never has; why start now?

  Besides I think many teenagers are far more demanding than Harry was.  I kept wondering why he never demanded to know more if that is what he wanted?  If he's so rebellious and angry why not lash out in a way that is geared to getting what he wants?  If he wanted to know why he had to stay with the Dursleys, why not ask and refuse to go until he got an answer?  If he wanted to know if he was possessed - ask someone.  If he wanted Sirius to stop treating him like James most rebellious kids would just scream "I'm not James!" or something to that effect.
  <<snip>>
  Average kids don't take to being kept in the dark.  And in this situation there was no reason for Harry to go along and take it - especially since he was so angry.
  <snip>
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  Harry spent all his formative years under the abusive regime of the Dursleys.  He has spent the majority of his life learning not to ask questions or display his joys and fears openly.  I can see that he fears rocking the boat too far, although he has rarely resisted the occassional wobble.  Harry has always hidden things from those around him, but he is now coming to realise that this is not just a case of keeping things to himself, but it affecting the lives of other people.  He had not really had to deal with this kind of thing before.

  He needs the support, love and friendship of those around him, but at the time he needs it most he discovers that everyone has been keeping secrets from him, have their own agendas.  He desperatly wants to maintain their affection, but also to prove himself.  He seems to see their attempts to protect both him and the secrets of the Order as rejection and exclusion, because this is what he has been used to.  Vernon won't let him read a newspaper or listen to the news reports, Dumbledore and his friends won't tell him what's going on, either.  He has not the temperment or the experience to cope very well with this, so he continues to hide things from others.  He is now considering that the people he thought he could open up to and rely on aren't so close after all, and being too demanding will drive them away, or to behave like the Dursleys.  He doesn't want to lose even a semblance of affection and support.

  Harry might think if he asked 'Am I possessed?', everyone will fear and avoid him, distrust him, or worse, so he keeps his fear in.  If he turned on Sirius and said 'I'm not my father', Sirius might say, 'No, I realize now you are just some school kid I've met a few times that happens to be related to someone I knew many years ago'.

  He wants to be accepted and loved.  His anger (irrational or not) has increased because he has discovered that noone unconditionally or fully does so.  He thinks revealing his fears, anger and other feelings will only earn him further rejections. 

  As for him starting to reflect the behaviour of those around him, this is again a natural result of his growing up - he is echoing and adapting his personal and social behaviour independantly, rather than being led, like a child.(Dawn)

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  <<snip>>

  For instance ... It was obvious to Snape that Harry wasn't trying with Occulumency. He'd be reporting to DD.  What happens? Nothing.

  The fate of the wizarding world rests on this boy's shoulders but they do nothing to ensure he's doing what he is supposed to.  
  <snip>
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  All we actually know is that at the time Harry sees nothing happen about his failure.  What is going on behind closed doors at the Order and the school we are not privy to.

  There could be concerns, for instance, that too much interference might actually make Harry susceptable to Voldermort in some way, or else rob him of too much of his independence.  They don't know yet whether they will have to use Harry as a tool to destroy LV, or he will independantly find the means within him.  Tipping the balance could be disasterous. (Dawn)

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  <<snip>>
  Yes yes... Those hormones.  Because no boy ever kept his eye on a girl and his brain in his head at the same time.  No boy ever managed to do his work, struggle through rough times and not be entirely thrown by hormones... Wow we should have told that to all those boys who for centuries ran farms, helped their families through famine and hardship, ran countries, went to college, became clergy, went to war, learned a trade - all admist their teenage years.  That would be simply impossible with all those hormones raging.  Teenage boys are really good for nothing at that age.

  So... let us not forget how stupid boys get when hormones enter the picture.  Except Neville seems devoid of them and remains the sane pleasant child he always was.  How'd that happen? Guess he's a late bloomer.

  Golly
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  Again, I point out that the 'raging hormones' are not just a dramatic increase in sex drive.  It means that the flood of testosterone and other hormones (and girls get this too) makes you more impassioned and heightens your senses generally.  How many teenagers will sit listening to the some album at full volume for hours on end?  At the time it feels right, then they (usually) outgrow it.  Some will throw themselves into following or taking part in a sport (and remember, Harry is prevented from that release in this year), or some other hobby.  It can also mean that without proper support and guidance it is easier to go hurtling off in the wrong direction or to overreact to the smallest things. Raging hormones are powerful, but are no excuse for 'bad' behaviour, and can be a good thing with a suitable outlet. 

  As for his being unaffected, the effort Neville puts into taking part in the DA could well be where he is channelling at least some of his hormonal ardour, or else in other areas that Harry has no real interest, so we don't hear about it.  

  I accept that for generations those going through puberty have managed to cope with the things you suggest - but with the support and guidance of others, like family, government or ministers, religon and other authority figures and support structures(and there is plenty of evidence that they still went of the rails and had tantrums, as well).  Harry has not only gone through some very upsetting times, but when he comes back, he finds that Dumbledore has withdrawn from him, the authority of the teachers is being undermined by Umbridge and the MoM, the media is convincing even his school mates that he is untrustworthy, and his godfather is behaving irresponsibly.  Just when he needs it most, his support network is flawed.


  Dawn


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