Fudge Naive or DE? (was "is there a reason?")

[maneelyfh]

No: HPFGUIDX 77353

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Kelly" <keltobin at y...> wrote:
>  Fran wrote:
> 
> > Everyone seems to think that Fudge is just naive but I think he 
is 
> a 
> > LV supporter if not a DE.  Around the same passage quoted above, 
DD 
> > accuses Fudge of "putting too much importance on purity of 
blood". 
> > Things that bother me about Fudge:
> > 1) Puts the blame on Sirius for the Potter's, and Wormtails 
> supposed 
> > death without a trial or asking for an explanation.
> > 2)The deatheaters in POA
> > 3)The dementors kiss on Barty jr without taking the opportunity 
to 
> > question him.
> > 4)The whole parting of the ways.
> > 5)His continuing reluctance to believe LV is back at the end of 
> OOP. 
> > He didn't exactly go Oh MY God you were right all along DD, he 
> > reacted begrudgingly to it.
> > 6)He thinks so highly of Lucious Malfoy. Yes I know Lucious gives 
> > money but giving money isnt that big a deal for someone who has 
> > alot.  
> > I realize that this is out there but I just dont believe he is 
that 
> > naive. I also believe Ludo Bagman is a DE.....Wimbourn 
Wasp...Wasp 
> > buzzing around in GOF and OOP.....
> 
> You have some very good points.  I think that there is a chance, 
> albeit slim, that Fudge may be a DE after all.  Personally, I think 
> he is representative of a bureaucratic politician who 
> prefers "business as usual" and will avoid "rocking the boat" at 
all 
> costs.  I also get the feeling that he is almost completely unable 
to 
> make decisions on his own.  Instead, it appears that he takes other 
> peoples solutions and acts on them.  This can be evidenced by the 
> following points:
> 
> -  In SS/ PS when Hagrid tells Harry "They wanted Dumbledore fer 
> Minister, o' course, but he's never leave Hogwarts, so old 
Cornelius 
> Fudge got the job.  Bungler if ever there was one.  So he pelts 
> Dumbledore with owls every morning, askin' fer advice (SS 64-5)."
> 
> -  In CoS in the chapter Cornelius Fudge there are numerous quotes 
> from Fudge that make him appear to be doing the bidding of others 
> rather than making a decision of his own.
>      "'Hagrid's record's against him.  Ministry's got to do 
> something -- the school's governors have been in touch -- CoS 
261).'"
> 
>      In the same scene in CoS Fudge is seen with his "Upper lip 
> sweating" and "fiddling with his bowler."  He only makes a show of 
a 
> stance against Malfoy and seems, in general, more worried about 
what 
> people will think than future deaths at Hogwarts.
> 
> We have the glaring example at the end of GoF.  Fudge is much more 
> worried about being thrown out of office than the possibility that 
> people are in danger.  I believe he orders the dementor's kiss on 
> Crouch without a trial because of his fear that Dumbledore is 
telling 
> the truth.  In fact, I think he knows that Voldemort is back, yet 
is 
> in a serious stage of denial.
> 
> The most obvious examples of Fudge's incompetence are in OoTP.  He 
> blindly passes the "Educational Decree"s seemingly based on 
> Umbridge's recommendations.  His relationship with Malfoy seems to 
be 
> a surrogate for his lost relationship with Dumbledore (i.e. he 
needs 
> a person to help him make decisions).
> 
> In short, I think that it is unlikely that Fudge is a death eater.  
> However, his incompetence and naivete are rungs in the ladder that 
> could allow the DE to rise to power.  His pure blood attitude could 
> be seen as a DE trait.  However, I think that it is safe to say 
that 
> many non DE wizards have similar feelings about this.  
> 
> Bagman... well not so sure about him.  I think he is a tad smarter 
> than he portrays himself, but there just doesn't seem to be enough 
> evidence pointing one way or the other.  The fact that he was 
cleared 
> of charges means little since the court is fallible and the jury 
was 
> certainly blinded by his celebrity status.  Hopefully we see him 
> again and find out one way or the other.

Thanks for the great reply! However, something just doesn't sit well 
with me concerning Fudge.  Labeling him as a DE may be well out there 
but I still feel he is a LV supporter at the least.  I remember 
reading something Sirius said about his family, while not DE's except 
his brother, but supporters of LV. 

Now for Bagman: still see him as the wasp flying around when Harry 
was practicing in GOF to make sure that Harry is doing well in 
preparation for the Triwizards Tournement and me thinks same said 
wasp buzzing around during the OWLs.  IMO Harry seeing Bagman in the 
pensieve as a possible DE, and Winky's comments indicate that there 
is more to Bagman than meets the eye.  JKR said in an interview that 
Harry's eyes are his vulnerability and I think it applies to other 
characters in the book as well. There seems to be alot of short-
sightedness in the book.
Fran