Vampire!Snape(long)

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 77484

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy St John" 
<hebrideanblack at e...> wrote:

Okay. My take on Vampire!Snape. My answer to this is in two parts. I 
don't
think it's a bunch of hooey, but I'm also not certain that Snape will 
prove
to be a vampire in canon. I feel certain that JKR put in the clues
deliberately, but whether she meant them as clues or as red herrings, 
it's
difficult to say. There is just too much vampire imagery surrounding 
Snape
for it to be our imaginations.  

"K":
I agree with almost all that Wendy had to say. So, from one vampire 
lover to another...it is amazing that some people don't see Snape and 
vampires connected at all. I would like to know how some of us can 
pick up on the hints and others can't even seem to find one. I would 
also like to know why JKR would bother to even place the hints if 
Snape wasn't some type of vampire. Why the red herrings? What would 
she be trying to draw our attention away from? Just 'what' is Snape? 
If he isn't a vampire/dhampir then what is he? There's something 
about this man besides just some oddball who is a depressed young 
soul. 

Wendy St John
...but IMO the big bit is the vampire essay that Lupin assigned,
seemingly in "retaliation" for Snape's werewolf essay.

"K"
I know others can't believe Lupin would stoop to that level but I 
don't agree with that at all. Not only does Lupin make a point of 
mentioning that vampire assignment in front of Snape, but Snape 
doesn't bother to stop Lupin and the boys from leaving. We are never 
told what his reaction is to Lupin's statement. Personally, I think 
it's funny and wish we could have seen Snape's reaction. Why didn't 
JKR bother to show us? That would have been a dead give away. Also, 
right before Harry leaves Hogwarts (prior to the Lupin thingy) he 
meets up with Neville and they are discussing vampires just as Snape 
walks up. These are only two of the examples of Snape/vampire in a 
very short amount of time.

Wendy St John:
Is she trying to trick us, or trying to trick us into tricking us? 
(That makes
no sense, does it?) <G> 

"K":
I understand it!

Wendy St John:
I believe the vampire clues are intentional, which
means that she either A) put them in so that when we learn he's a 
vampire,
she can say, "look, it was there all along;" or B) she's put the 
clues in
to trick us into thinking he's a vampire, so she can say, "Gotcha!" 
with
something else when he turns out *not* to be.
 

"K":
JKR has admitted to planting red herrings and of course this could be 
one of them. I still don't understand why she would bother unless she 
is trying to hide something about Snape. If I'm wrong on this vampire 
stuff I'll laugh along with everybody else. It's just fun to think 
about and discuss.

Wendy St John:
and I do believe the popularity of these books may
have affected the way she wrote in her clues in OoP, and possibly 
even in
GoF. However, there were plenty of good vampire clues in PoA and 
PS/SS, and
I'm not sure she was trying to be quite so sneaky way back when. 


"K":
I have only read OoP once and I read it only to enjoy. I wasn't 
reading it looking for clues. At first I didn't think there were very 
many hints at vampires in OoP but I do believe there are a few and 
I'll address them at a later time.

Wendy St John:
I don't believe
that she's changing the fundamental content or storyline because of 
the
popularity of the books...


"K":
I don't think she is either and I wouldn't want her to do so.

Wendy St John:
However, since this whole vampire thing appeared in the first
book, I think it's possible that she intended for the revelation that
Severus is a vampire to be a big bang later in the series, and she 
just
never thought so many of us would pick up on it, and find it so 
obvious.
 

"K":
It's like Snape wanting the DADA job and never getting it. She has 
finally admitted that he indeed does want the job but won't say why 
Dumbledore (who is in no way evil or to blame for every little thing 
that goes wrong)does not allow him to have it. What's all this 'it 
would bring out the worst in him'? I think this DADA thing was 
suppose to be sort of a big bang in the later books and I think it is 
in some way connected to what Snape is. Whatever that may be.

Wendy St John:
Of course, I think there is also a good chance that it is a total red
herring, and she would laugh herself silly to find out just how much
discussion goes on about it.


"K":
I've been wrong before and I might be wrong on this. As long as Snape 
doesn't turn out to be truly evil I don't care.

Wendy St John:
But I have always been
fascinated with vampires, as long as I can remember. In general, I 
think
they're sexy, and the idea of Snape (who is already Dead Sexy in my 
book)
being a vampire just adds another layer of attraction to him for me. 
Bent?
Maybe. <G> But I'm not the only one! ;-)


"K":
I have always loved vampires also and I think he would make a great 
vamp. The way he looks and the way he moves is wonderful. If he just 
turns out to be a greasy-haired, sneering wizard who wears black 
that's fine also except the vampire thing would be great as far as 
I'm concerned.

Wendy St John:
Why Half-Vampire? Because I like to think he was born that way, and 
was
already vampiric as a Hogwarts' student. But in canon, we've seen him 
age,
so he couldn't have been just a pure vampire, or his age would remain
static (unless JKR decides to play with that, which could very well 
be the
case - more on this in a bit)


"K":
Here's just a few definitions on dhampirs:

~~In the shadows of gypsy folklore lurks the dhampir, the offspring 
of a vampire and a human. Shunned by both branches of his family tree 
and conflicted by his dual nature, the dhampir is nevertheless 
particularly effective as a mercenary siding with the living, 
relentlessly tracking down and relieving the undead of their 
pesky "un-" status.~~

~~A dhampir is the product of a vampire and a human, stemming from 
gypsy folklore. A dhampir retains some power from its vampire side, 
although it does not have all of its weakness, or feel it's 
weaknesses as strongly.~~

~~"The term Dhampir in modern folklore refers to the offspring of a 
vampire and a human mate, traditionally a male vampire mating with a 
human female. This offspring is normally male. The dhampir was 
thought to have special qualities. He could sense where vampires hid 
themselves from the world, and therefore he had the ability to be a 
superb vampire hunter.  These qualities would be passed down 
genetically to his offspring, and it was thought to last many 
generations."~~

~~When a vampire has a child with a mortal, the child is a dhampir, 
half-mortal, half-vampire. Dhampir seek to hunt vampires almost 
instinctively as soon as they become aware of their dhampiric nature. 
The theme of Dhampir is one of self-hatred and trying to make up for 
your parent's mistakes, trying to fix things that keep breaking.~~

~~The dhampir comes from the gypsy lore of eastern Europe. The 
vampires of some gypsy legends have insatiable sexual appetites 
(along with their appetite for blood), mainly directed towards their 
widows. Although a female vampire cannot bear children, a child can 
be produced from the union of a male vampire and living woman. These 
children, most of whom are male, are called dhampirs, and have the 
special ability to detect vampires (many of whom can become invisible 
in gypsy legend). The dhampir may hire himself out as a vampire 
killer, either engaging in all sorts of odd rituals, wrestling with 
the invisible spirit, and/or doing it in with a single shot from a 
pistol. Just like vampires, the exact names and characteristics of 
the dhampir differ from region to region. Most of the time, dhampirs 
were considered to be normal humans, other than their special 
abilities of detection...~~

Notice that the dhampir is especially known for hunting vampires. In 
some folklore it seems the dhampir makes a point of tracking down his 
father.  


Wendy St John:
Now, this next bit is the other major thing I want to say. As soon as 
the
subject of Vampire!Snape comes up, there are tons of posts back and 
forth
about "but he can go out in daylight," and "What about the garlic in
Quirrell's turban," blah blah blah. Well, none of that matters. I 
think
this bears repeating. None. Of. That. Matters.
 

"K":
I'm not an expert on vampires. I admit that. However, I have spent 
time researching vampires and they are all different. Many of the 
sites differ as to where the folklore started and what a vampire can 
and can't do. One site has a vampire being able to look in a mirror. 
Another site has a vampire walking in the daylight. Who is right? 

Wendy St John:

In fact, if, by the end of Book 7, JKR hasn't come out
and specifically mentioned that Snape is *not* a vampire, I will 
forever
believe him to be one, even if she never *confirms* this in the text.


"K":
I'm sure we will know one way or another whether Snape is a 
vampire/dhampir or whatever else he might be. Actually, there are a 
couple of things that Snape reminds me of but I'll keep those weird 
thoughts to myself. The vampire theory causes enough problems.

Wendy St John Message 77131 
Why Half-Vampire? Because I like to think he was born that way, and 
was
already vampiric as a Hogwarts' student. But in canon, we've seen him 
age,so he couldn't have been just a pure vampire, or his age would 
remainstatic (unless JKR decides to play with that, which could very 
well be thecase - more on this in a bit).


"K":
I read on one site that a dhampir doesn't even know they are 
different or have any special abilities until they get older. Whether 
Snape was born a dhampir or not I'm not sure. 

silmariel Message 77414
I don't happen to think Snape is a vampire/dhampire, btw, but a big 
red 
herring covering a real one.


"K"
To cover what? That's what I would like to know. If it's a red 
herring just what is JKR hiding from us?

Here's my POV of a certain scene in OoP.

Chapter 28
Round-shouldered yet angular, he walked in a twitchy manner that 
recalled a spider, his oily hair swinging about his face.

When I read this I thought James or Sirius had put a hex on Snape. It 
made me think of how Neville was always having something done to his 
legs. Yet others take this to mean that Snape is slouching and has no 
self-confidence. IMO I don't see that at all but I think it's because 
of the way I look at the books. Also, I'm just not into all that 
psychology stuff. It doesn't say Snape is slouching or stooped over. 
It describes him as round shouldered. Plus, I've never heard of a 
person with emotional problems walking like a spider. *Twitching*? As 
I was researching vampires I ran across the following:


~~Powers and Abilities of Vampires /Scale walls 

Vampires can be as nimble as spiders. The most well known case comes 
from a scene in Dracula.~~ 


~~Wall Climbing 
Vampires can climb walls without the aid of any equipment. They can 
climb up or down the steepest walls the way insects do (much like 
Spiderman), enabling them to seek refuge in places where no mere 
mortal can reach.~~ 

I ran across several sites that mentioned vampires climbing like 
spiders or having special climbing abilities.

Also in OoP we have the mother of Black yelling about half-breeds, 
traitors, and Creatures of Dirt. In some folklore a vampire had to 
have dirt in his shoes. 

~~In Bram Stoker's Dracula, the vampire did not rest in a coffin, but 
needed to rest on his native soil. Thus Dracula transported large 
crates full of soil with him when he traveled to England. The 
desecration of his soil eventually forced him back to his native 
land.~~ 

Let me mention here that evidently some of the early folklore did not 
have vampires sleeping in a coffin.

~~Early literaray vampires did not have coffins.Geraldine 
from "Christabel", Lord Ruthven, and Varney the Vampire had no 
casket. Carmilla brought no coffin with her, although she was 
eventually found resting in her own crypt. Otherwise, these vampires 
had perfectly comfortable rest wherever they might have been.~~

As has been said many times before, the are many different types of 
vampire lore and JKR can do as she so pleases.

So, if Snape isn't a vampire that's okay. Though I would like to see 
him as such, I would sure get over it.

As I have said before, I believe Snape is going to be the example of 
how a vampire can live in the wizarding world. Vampires are hated and 
feared. There is a strong theme of racism in the books and I believe 
vampires will come into the story. Someone has to represent the 
vampires. Personally, I'd rather it be Snape. 

"K"