Why the Veil? 'I'll be Back'

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 77881

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lavaluvn" <gansecki at h...> 
wrote:
> 
> > 
> > My question is: why did JKR use the veil for Sirius' (sniff) 
death?  
> > I ask because because my husband ... had the reaction - "oh he'll 
be
> >  back" ...
> > 
> > I know everyone quotes JKR on how death is final, etc, etc, no 
one 
> > can come back.  ...edited...
> >
> > ...edited...
> >
> > 
> > Thanks,  CAG
> 
> 
> bboy_mn:
> 
> Let's make a distinction here-
> 
> There is a big difference between someone coming back into the story
> and someone coming back from the dead.
> 
> I say Sirius is dead; completely, totally, finally and forever dead,
> but I also believe he will be back. 
> 
> He can come back to the story without coming back from the dead.
> 
> He'll be back, as in -
> 
> a.) Harry goes into the veil and talks to Sirius.
> b.) Harry pulls back the veil and sees Sirius on the other side, and
> while standing on the 'life' side, he talks to Sirius who remains on
> the death side.
> c.) Flashback as in the pensieve scene in Snapes office.
> d.) more pensieve scenes.
> e.) Long rambling late night coversations with Lupin or some other
> person during which we gain a very very deep insight into Sirius. 
> f.) Harry crosses over to 'the other side' where he remains for
> eternity, but has just enough time for a farewell from beyond that
> veil which resolves and closes the story. The end. Fini. Finis.

I am firmly on board with this. 

> The veil as a plot device-
> I think part of the reason for using the veil to kill Sirius as
> opposed to a mortal curse wound that would allow a nice heartfelt
> death bed scene, is that real life rarely allows us those 'heartfelt
> death bed scenes' where everyone confesses all, all conflicts are
> resolved, everyone says 'I love you' and everyone part sad but 
satisfied. 

Well, I understand what you're saying here, but I think a good, old 
fashioned AK would have done the trick of making sure Sirius was 
instantly dead.  As in dead, no goodbyes, no final messages, no teary 
death throe scene.  He'd be just as suddenly, pointlessly and 
irreversibly gone.  In that sense I think the death was written this 
way specifically to introduce the veil and give hints on what may be 
behind it.  And, that's why the death struck me as too rigged,
too convenient that the duel would take place right where it did and 
Sirius would fall in just the right direction to go through the veil.

> I think she wanted it to be a death that we could hardly believe,
> because when people we love are lost forever, it is hard to 
believe; a
> death that leaves us stunned and confused. 

Leaving aside for the moment the role or use the veil may have in 
books 6 and 7, the whole lack of a body has caused confusion with 
some readers.  A number of people (maybe those who are not quite as 
obsessive as a lot of us are) have posted on this list, and on other 
HP-related lists that they can't believe that this death is final.  
And, I'm not talking the SAD DENIAL people here.  I'm talking about 
those folks who don't seek out JKR interviews and don't look for that 
information that has to be gleaned outside of actually reading the 
books.  So, for these people, there isn't necessarily a stunned sense 
of loss and what this means to Harry.  There's a sense of waiting for 
the other shoe to drop to see how JKR will bring Sirius back.


> Where is Harry's resolution in this death? Where is his chance to 
say
> goodbye? Where is his chance to morn the loss? 
Where is his chance to
> view Sirius's body one more time, a chance to memorialize him, to
> eulogize and pay tribute to him?

I'm very interested to see how this is handled.  I think, from 
previous posts, that you and I are on the same wavelength in thinking 
that Harry has suffered a certain lack of support by the adults 
around him and that the message he may internalize is that it doesn't 
pay to love anyone, because they will become targets. And, that 
becomes more likely the closer Harry gets to his ultimate show-down 
with Voldemort. 

> I also feel the the Veil was not a 'one trick pony'. I think it's
> important and it will play a very siginificant roll in the future.

Yes, either for someone finding out what goes on behind there, or 
perhaps making a journey through it.  I think we've just scratched 
the surface of what goes on in the Dept. of Mysteries.

Marianne