flyingmotorcycle/eyes/HouseElves/Socks/L+J/nameRemus/canon/freewill/more

Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) catlady at wicca.net
Sat Aug 23 08:21:02 UTC 2003


No: HPFGUIDX 78502

Vik Jarveys wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/75545 :

<< But wouldn't a flying motorbike be illegal as a charmed muggle 
thing, like Mr Weasley's car and flying carpets? >>

Probably, but it seems to me that the Ministry of Magic doesn't care 
very much about ENFORCING its laws unless the violation gets into the 
Daily Prophet or the Muggles find out or the law enforcer welcomes 
the opportunity to "do" a disliked perpetrator. (Like JAZMYN said! 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77753 )

<< I'd assume that wizards do need to drive(ministry cars) so they 
would probably have licenses, >>

Why would wizards who drive cars need to have a Muggle driver's 
license? They can just Obliviate or Confund any traffic cop who asks 
to see their license.

<< I wonder why the ministry gets away with having charmed cars and 
ordinary wizards don't. Such double standards. >>

The Ministry is their government. The government always allows itself 
to do things that it doesn't allow ordinary people to do, I mean in 
RL ... if *I* grabbed some evildoer by force and locked him in a cage, 
I'd be guilty of kidnapping.

Margaret wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77640 :

<< That theory won't work. A dragon's eyes are it's WEAKEST point 
(GoF US hardcover pg 406) as Sirius said in his letter to Harry in 
the chapter The Yule Ball >>

Sorry, I meant that this theory said that a wizard's eyes are as 
resistant to magic as a dragon's brain or skin or whatever it is that 
needs 30 wizards to Stun one dragon, not as resistant as a dragon's 
eyes. So it could take 30 wizards casting the spell to even 
*temporarily* correct a wizard's myopia or astigmatism.

Laura wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77653 :

<< Where do house elves come from? How long do they live? How do they 
reproduce, that is, do they marry or pair off in some other way? How 
does a family acquire one? Are there house elves without families (or 
family substitutes, like Hogwarts)? >>

None of us actually *know* any of those answers, which has not kept 
us from wild speculation. There seems to be general agreement that 
since House Elves are humanoid and there are male and female House 
Elves (Dobby and Winky), they reproduce in the mammalian way. *I* 
think that House Elves go hang out together on some corner late at 
night while their humans are asleep and their work is all done, and 
that is how they meet their spouses, and how spouses get together 
for some canoodling after the wedding, and the sons belong to the 
father's family and the daughters to the mother's family. Others 
have, horrified, suggested that humans breed House Elves like 
pedigreed dogs or such.

How many House Elve heads on plaque does it take to line a stairway? 
How long ago did Sirius's Aunt Elladora start the 'tradition' of 
beheading the House Elves when they get too old to carry a tea tray? 
If House Elves reproduced at age one year and were too old at age two 
years, that could be one head a year and the stairway would get all 
filled up very quickly. However, from our knowledge of Dobby, it 
seems that House Elves aren't quite that ephemeral. Dobby is old 
enough that he remembers Voldemort's first Reign of Terror (VRoT or 
"the Bad Years") and is still alive in OoP fourteen years after it 
ended.

<< Some of the posts in the archive suggested parallels between house 
elves and other elves in literature-Tolkien's, for instance. But I 
don't see the comparison, really-they are entirely different sorts of 
beings. (What do Legolas and Dobby have in common, after all?) >>

I think everyone agrees that House Elves have nothing to do with 
Tolkien elves, but House Elves do resemble the "brownies" or little 
"elves" who did the shoemaker or housewife's work overnight while 
he/she was asleep, until heesh gratefully gave them little clothes as 
a present and they happily ran away and never did the work again. 
Someone mentioned a district of Britain where those brownies are 
traditionally called "dobbies".

Michael Gidlow wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77914 :

<< I can't help but think that Dumbledore's seeing socks in the 
Mirror of Erised is a clue to something important. We know that to a 
house elf a sock means freedom, so could it be that Dumbledore wants 
to be freed from something? Any ideas? >>

My friend has been saying since CoS that the Socks mean that 
Dumbledore is a House Elf disguised to look like a human and he wants 
to be freed. She says the reason he's such a great wizard is because 
he has House Elf magic. (Nicolas Flamel's House Elf, she speculated.) 
Some other people have suggested that the Socks mean Dumbledore wants 
to free the House Elves, perhaps specifically on purpose to have them 
join the fight againt Voldemort.

Myself, I believe that what Dumbledore sees in the Mirror of Erised 
is not just any old socks, but a brand-new pair of the hideously ugly 
and somewhat uncomfortable hand-knitted socks that his late beloved 
wife or mother (or father or brother, I add to show that I'm not 
sexist about knitting) used to make for his Christmas gift every 
year, and his heart's true desire is not the socks, but to be 
still/again with the lost beloved.

Quite separately, it seems to me that what Dumbledore wishes to be 
freed from is his very long life. One clue is how often GoF describes 
him looking old and tired. An earlier clue is his comment on his old 
friend Nicolas giving up the Philosopher's Stone at the end of PS/SS: 
"and then, yes, they will die." Dumbledore smiled at the look of 
amazement on Harry's face. "To one as young as you, I'm sure it seems 
incredible, but  to Nicolas and Perenelle, it really is like going to 
bed after a very, very long day." I imagine that he is staying alive, 
in weariness and increasing physical discomfort, by sheer willpower, 
out of duty to fight Voldemort. 

Severus Book4 wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77967 :

<< Lupin is always descibed as being a little worse for wear, or 
unhealthy. Do you think this is a result of not feeding on humans at 
every full moon? Or a result of the serious potion he has to take? 
If it's the lack of fresh meat, I say the MOM should feed Umbridge to 
him if it would help build his strength. >>

This is a forbidden LMAO post!

Mandy wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/77976 :

<< If not, she then married him out of duress or necessity? I don't 
think so. Why? Let's see: Duress? (snip) So I suppose it could be 
possible, but all the photo's Harry has seen of his parents they both 
look very happy so I don't think so. Duress through an arranged 
marriage? (snip) Ok so we are left with necessity, which deals with 
teenage pregnancy. (snip) >>

I believe that Lily and James married for love, and had their baby 
(whether or not planned) for love, and didn't know about any prophecy 
until after he was born. But there have long been theories that Lily 
and James found out that genetics or prophecy made them the only pair 
that could produce the child that would defeat Voldemort, and their 
loyalty to the struggle caused them to break up with their previous 
beloveds to marry each other for that strictly practical purpose.

Mandy wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78038 :

<< Do you think Remus Lupin named himself after her was bitten or his 
parents gave him that name from birth? >>

I believe his parents named him Remus Lupin, just as Sirius parent's 
named him Sirius Black (Dog-Star Black is a big Black Dog). One 
listie suggested that there is a Naming Spell. If the parents cast 
the Naming Spell, it gives the child a properly destined name; the 
catch is that the parents HAVE TO give the child that name. I don't 
believe in the Naming Spell because it couldn't control the surname. 
I prefer to believe that the destined names come from sheer magical 
co-incidence. Altho'that indicates destiny being inherited 
patrilineally: all Malfoys must be evil because their name means Bad 
Faith. Malcolm Baddock (sorted into Slytherin in GoF) must be evil 
because his name is MALxxxx BADxxxx. What happened to all that free 
will modern people believe in?

Anyway, why don't the wizarding folk notice that names are meaningful 
and figure out that Remus Lupin is a werewolf as soon as they hear 
his name, so there is no secret to be kept by WPP in school days and 
Snape in PoA?

Charlie Moody wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78073 :

<< Until it's committed to print, she can change her mind about 
anything she says, if she  wants to bad enough. Print - published 
works - are authoritative. >>

She can change the published works, too. She has done so. In the 
Priori Incantati scene in GoF, early printings had James's shadow 
exit Voldie's wand first and tell Harry his mother is coming, she has 
something to tell him. Since this contradicted either the statement 
that spell echoes leave the wand in reverse chronological order of 
casting or the description of James being killed before Lily, we 
listies came up with some half a dozen clever explanations. Later 
printings have Lily's shadow exit first and tell Harry his father is 
coming etc. The change is covered in the VFAQ. 

Del Doriane wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78109 :

<< "Geoff Bannister" wrote: << Again, to finish, Dumbledore points 
out to Harry in COS that what we are is a result of our choices, not 
our abilities >> I liked it so much when the principle of free agency 
was thus pointed out in CoS. And I hated it so much when the Prophecy 
came along in OoP, and destroyed everything. According to this 
Prophecy, Harry is the one who will destroy Voldemort, whether he 
likes it or not, whether he wants it or not, whether he decides to or 
not. Where is Harry's free agency in all of this? >>

In general, philosophically, it's kind of difficult for free will to 
exist in a universe that has prophecy, or destiny, or time travel for 
that matter. (My answer to my own question, above.) I can't recall 
anything in canon that *states* that there is free will. Long ago, 
one wise and clever listie (whose name I have unfortunately forgotten) 
pointed out that Dumbledore, in that famous CoS scene, did *not* say 
that it is our choices that *make* us what we are. He said: "It is 
our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." SHOW what we truly are. SHOW what we were and are 
*destined* to be, because we never had a choice about which choice we 
would choose: it was fixed from the beginning. Damn, she explained it 
so much better than I did.

Steve bboy_mn wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78197 :

<< I think Lupin's mother is still alive and that he still lives with
her, and she still encourages him to make productive use of his time
and try to make something out of his life. Sure hope we get to meet 
her. >>

I think the "Lupin's place" to which Dumbledore referred at the end 
of GoF is some kind of small isolated cabin (*IN* the dragon preserve 
would be plenty isolated!) either inherited from his grandfather or 
lent to him by Dumbledore, rather than his parents' house. I think 
his parents are still alive but have retired to a small village in 
Greece --- I think they're English but spent most of their career 
working in Greece, managing a hotel for British wizarding tourists. 
Why Greece? Because it's in the Balkans, where werewolves seem to be 
less uncommon, so a likely place for their young son to have been 
bitten. (Btw I believe Lupin is living with Black in 12 Grimmauld 
Place during OoP.)

Jeff wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78250 :

<< he grew up in a miserable enviroment. The fact that he isn't a 
serial killer is a miracle. >>

I think Lily did that by magic. Read about it in my post 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/56252

Maritza wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78374 :

<< technically they weren't being tricked. It's not like she hid the 
hats inside other obects and *handed* them to the house elves, like 
Harry with Malfoy. >>

But she did hide the hats under little piles of trash that the House 
Elves were supposed to clear away. Ron moved them out from under the 
little piles of trash, saying that the Elves deserved to know they 
were there and make their own choice.

Jeff wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/78489 :

<< even Ron shows little intrest in girls that I can see. >>

I see Ron showing interest in girls. In PoA, the Trio go into the 
Three Broomsticks. "A curvy sort of woman with a pretty face was 
serving a bunch of rowdy warlock' up at the bar. "That's Madam 
Rosmerta," said Ron. "I'll get the drinks, shall I?" he added, going 
slightly red." When I first read PoA, I thought Ron was flushing with 
pride over buying the drinks for his friends (as money is such an 
issue for him). But the next year I read GoF, with all Ron's 
drooling over the Veelas at QWC and then Fleur at her first arrival, 
and I realised that back in PoA, the flush was because he had 
bought the round simply as an excuse to look down Madam Rosmerta's 
neckline.





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