[HPforGrownups] Digest Number 3690

[Stacy Forsythe]

No: HPFGUIDX 78990

At 07:41 PM 8/27/2003 +0000, Carolina wrote:

>Message: 1
>    Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:18:50 +0200
>    From: Carolina <silmariel at telefonica.net>
>Subject: Re: Re: Time-Travel- why Harry *can* save himself (was: POA 
>Dementor Kiss on Harry)
>
>  Steve:
> > In the linear, unbiased, neutral timeline at the one and only
> > time 9:00PM occurred, both Harry and Hermione, and time travel
> > Harry and Hermione are there. Since TT!Harry is there, having
> > arrived at 9pm, he is there and available at approx 11:30pm to
> > save himself from the Dementors.
>
>9:00 PM only  happens once, but the events taking place at 9:00
>change. Before HH went back in time, there was not footsteps, later
>it changed so timeline changed to include HH footsteps. We only see
>the changed version of events, wich include footsteps.

You're mixing your theories, there.  If you mean what the single-timeline 
theorists mean by "9:00 PM only happens once," you can't then turn around 
and say "the events taking place at 9:00 change."  When a single-timeline 
theorist insists that "9:00 PM happens once," he means that there is only 
one set of events that occurs at 9PM.  Nothing is changed or 
overwritten.  Your version is actually proposing *two* 9:00s, one in which 
there was no second H&H (and thus no footsteps), which was 
subsequently  overwritten by the "new" 9:00 that we saw in the book.  The 
whole crux of the single-timeline theory is that there was no "first time 
through" in any sense, no chain of events "before" the time turner was 
used.   The time turner inserts an extra copy of Harry and Hermione into 
the events of 9:00 PM -- the one and only 9:00 PM that takes place.  No one 
-- not within the book, not among us readers -- observes or experiences a 
period in which only one Harry and Hermione live through the events of 9-12 
PM that night, and thus there is no need for anyone else to have saved 
Harry from the dementors.  Anyone who tried would find Harry (#2) already 
there doing it.



> > From the perceived passing of
> > time and in biological time, Harry and Hermione experience 9pm
> > twice, but that is a perception that is relative to their point
> > of view.
>
>One linear unbiased neutral timeline, multiple instances, what
>Talisman said. Hermione ages, that's clear, I don't see how it
>contradicts multiple instances.

Depends on what you mean by "multiple instances."  If you mean "Harry and 
Hermione experience 9-12 PM twice that night," then there's no problem 
(indeed, that's the data we're all working with from the book).  If you 
mean "there was a period of 9-12 PM with only one Harry and Hermione that 
was then overwritten by another instance of the same period with two Harrys 
and two Hermiones," then you are contradicting the "one linear unbiased 
neutral timeline" premise.  There is no way to display both "instances" on 
"one linear unbiased neutral timeline."



> > Harry was always there because he arrived at 9pm in the linear
> > unbiased timeline; saving himself occurred after 9pm.
>
>Harry couldn't have arrived at 9pm if dementorized.

True.  Fortunately, he was not dementorized.  Do we at any time see a 
dementorized Harry?  Nope.  We see him saved from the dementors just in 
time.  Thus, this concern is not a factor in the single-timeline 
theory.  We see both Harrys at 11:30; one narrowly escapes being dementor 
food, and the other casts the patronus that saves the first one.  If we are 
agreed that 11:30 only happens once, there is no need for any additional 
people in this scenario.

Heh.  Seems as though I only ever post to this list when there's a 
time-turner argument.


Stacy Forsythe
deadstop at wombatzone.com