Muggle Practices/Religion/Weasley practices

[lziner]

No: HPFGUIDX 79024

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <darkmatter30 at y...> 
wrote:
> Thus wrote bboy_mn (Steve):
>  
> > Exactly how old do you think Christmas is? 100 years? 500 years?
> > 1,000 years? No. Try 1,650 years old. 
> <snip>
> 
> Actually, it's a little older than that, as an "official" thing, 
but 
> not by much.  Having been raised by theologian, I'm pretty well 
> versed in this ... your list ignored some Coptic and Syrian 
> citations, if memory serves.  So, please, don't leap to conclusions 
> about what I might or might not know.
> 
> bboy_mn continued:
> 
> > Why is it so hard to believe that wizards might have heard about 
it?
> > True Christmas and Easter were ancient pagan holidays that EVOLVED
> > into the current Christian holidays, but why can't you believe the
> > wizards evolved their tradition too. 
> <snip>
> > I see no reason why the ancient pagen rites of wizards and witches
> > would not have evolved with the advent, introduction, and wide
> > spread acceptance of Christianity. Remember that wizards and
> > witches have not always been separated from Muggles. They have
> > gone through cycles of being integrated and separated. Certainly,
> > a 1650 year old tradition could have easily crept into their
> > culture. 
> <snip>
> 
> I don't find it hard at all to believe this.  I would EXPECT it to 
be 
> the case.  The problems is that the Wizarding World would surely 
> retain more identification of pagan or "classically" magical rites, 
> astronomical events, etc., as such, were such of real significance 
to 
> that WW.  Instead, we find the thin slice of the WW we see 
> celebrating events that are identifiably Christian in origin.  It 
> would also seem logical for the WW to start a slow reversion back 
to 
> more classically magical celebrations and observances (after all, 
not 
> all those assorted events and rites were "celebrated," as in some 
> regions and religions they could get a little bloody) as the divide 
> between the WW and the Muggle World widened ... regardless of how 
old 
> or recent that divide may in canon be.
> 
> The magic of the JKR WW is, so far as we've seen, devoid of 
> invocation of spirit outside one's self and one's wand.  Some 
things 
> must be done at precise lunar times, of course, but there has been 
no 
> invocation of "The Goddess," or of spirits, or demons, etc.  The 
only 
> spirits we've seen are ghosts, a poltergeist and lots of booze.  
(How 
> ANY creature could live drinking nothing but single malt scotch is 
> beyond me.  You've GOT to have some cognac and port, once in a 
while, 
> not to mention the occasional Cajun Bloody Mary.)  On the other 
hand, 
> we have those lyrics ... "God rest ye merry hippogriffs ..." and "O 
> Come All ye Faithful ..." (Forgive me if I got the lyrics a little 
> off ... no text at hand ...)  Thus, I don't see how pagan beliefs, 
> holy days, rites, etc., got into this.
> 
> I stand by my earlier comment that to me, religion has really 
nothing 
> to do with this fictional WW, apart from being part of the cultural 
> heritage that makes it a bit more familiar to the reader than a 
world 
> devoid of such references.  I see Christmas, Easter and such as 
being 
> present more to show the flow of time than as making any statement 
> either way.
> 
> 
> Richard

I totally agree with Richard about time flow.  Most children know 
when Christmas and Easter occur (winter/spring).  They know they get 
time-off from school. It makes sense to them that the Hogwarts 
students would have this time off as well.  

On another point, look at the backlash created in some circles about 
the  books even with christian holidays.  Imagine the uproar if JKR 
created/used pagan holidays. 

lziner 


instead.