Time-Travel- why Harry *can* save himself

[Talisman]

No: HPFGUIDX 79068

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Carolina <silmariel at t...> 
wrote: <snip>
I was instancing the characters, not the timeline. Multiple 
> timelines going wild gives me the chills, but in a sense yes, 
> because I concede there was a situation where HH hadn't travel 
back in time.

[Steve/bboy wrote:] 
> <<If, in the first instance of time, Harry was kissed by the 
> Dementor then he would not have the functional capability to send 
> himself back in time to save himself. >>
>
Carolina/silmariel replied: 
> That was the point of Talisman, that Snape was there pretending to 
> be unconscious, and he saved Harry the first time. I quote her: 
> "Understand that (#78370,) and you understand that someone else 
> saved Harry.  Couple that with Snape's traditional "save Harry " 
> role, and the other points in messages #78215 and 78258, and 
you've got my view of it."
> 
> There's a dementor & occlumency lesson that contains a 
interpretable Snape face, but I don't know the name of that thread.
>

Talisman, who had begun to fear she was unwittingly speaking 
Mermish, thanks Silmariel for her clear-headed support and 
assistance in this matter, and adds:

The occlumency reference is in message # 78215 

". . .in Occlumency lessons, Harry has recurrent 
visions of the dementor scene form PoA.(OoP 534, 536, 591) JKR 
chooses this "dementor vision" as the final one for 
Harry's "resistance break-through" so that we see Snape's face 
layered with the dementors. (OoP 591) Ambiguous, yes. Just a 
coincidence. I think not."

I do think it is significant that JKR repeats this memory three 
times during the lessons.  She does not do this with any other 
memory.

Moreover, in the third repetition, JKR shows us Snape mixed into the 
scene:

"A hundred dementors were swooping toward Harry across the lake in 
the grounds . . . He screwed up his face in concentration . . . They 
were closer . . .He could see the dark holes beneath their 
hoods . . .yet he could also see Snape standing in front of him, his 
eyes fixed on Harry's face, muttering under his breath . . . And 
somehow, Snape was growing clearer, and the dementors were growing 
fainter . . .." (OoP 591)

There are plenty of unpleasant memories from which JKR could draw, 
she doesn't need to repeat the dementor scene, but she does.  This 
repetition is intentional. JKR could use any memory if the Snape 
scene is just a fade-in caused by Harry's resistance, but she 
doesn't.  She chooses the intentionally repeated dementor scene.  
The wording is highly suggestive as well.

We have Harry's face, the dementor's face, and Snape's face 
juxtaposed.  Harry is screwing up his face, just as he would in his 
effort to stay conscious and fight the dementors.  The Dementor's 
face is "closing in " for the kiss.  And, Snape's face, is there 
keeping eye contact and muttering (which recalls the countercurse 
scene for SS where Snape saves Harry from Quirrell's jinx). 

In the PoA scene, Harry loses sight as the dementors close in and 
a "white fog" blinds him (PoA 384).  Harry senses the dementors 
retreating, before he can open his eyes, and when he is  able to 
open them, his vision is initially blurry (PoA 385).  

This sense of Harry's experience is invoked again when JKR 
says :"Snape was growing clearer, and the dementors were growing 
fainter . . ." (OoP 591)

I'd say that whether Snape's face is at any point part of Harry's  
memory, whether it's totally a fade-in, or whether it's a little of 
both, it all makes an interesting--and intentional--connotational 
mix.  

If the phone keeps ringing, I might pick it up.
 

Talisman, who is not even cranky anymore, because she got to 
use "kiss" and "Snape" in the same paragraph.