Is Snape confident?

[junediamanti]

No: HPFGUIDX 86247

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Nora Renka" <nrenka at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "junediamanti" 
> <june.diamanti at b...> wrote:
> 
> <snips a great deal of discussion relating to a Snape-loves-Lily 
> theory explaining the freakout in the Shrieking Shack>
> Nora:
> I appreciate this discussion, even though it's a little...what the 
> heck, a LOT...speculative for me.  I'm an exegete, not a 
speculator, 
> and LOLLIPOPS has never had a great deal of appeal to me, but what 
> the hell, I could be wrong. :)  

June:
But the speculation is what floats me boat!!  I'll not lose interest 
in Snape when all his truths are known, but I'll not obssess 
anymore.  A good deal of fun will be lost when his character is 
graven in granite.

> Nora:
> But that actually doesn't address the second paragraph; the more 
> general assertion that Snape isn't the type to deal well with 
being 
> challenged.  Try as I might, I can't envision him doing well in a 
> classroom where the kids actually get to ask questions and work 
> through ideas in a more substantial way.  He seems to enjoy making 
> things personal unnecessarily.

June:
Yeah, sure he wouldn't sit well in the British state school system 
today, where kids sit around tables and work in groups. Snape and 
Hogwarts belong to an older version of UK education where kids sit 
in rows of desks facing the teacher and listening to the teacher 
teach.  The sort of education system that I grew up in.  
Essentially, argument only happened in the sixth form (and then 
under carefully controlled situations!) - that's age 17 and 18.  
Even in those years, it was largely listen while teacher tells you.  
Now I'm not necessarily supporting this as a method of teaching 
because it involves a good deal of learning by rote, and not by 
thinking, it was however the system I learned under. I've known a 
good deal of teachers like Snape.  Come to think of it, we had a 
chemistry teacher v. like him - even down to the physical 
attributes.  Incidentally, under that teacher I did very well in 
sciences, it was only later under different teaching that my science 
grades slipped and I became a liberal arts nerd (make of that what 
you will).  Teachers like that were rather scary, NEVER had 
disciplinary problems because kids were far to scared to try 
anything.  There was no "namby-pamby" mentoring or counselling in 
those days either.  Now that was all very well for the brighter kids 
(of whom I was one) but obviously dimmer kids didn't exactly thrive 
under such treatment.  

Seminar type argument belonged exclusively to University teaching at 
that time.  And I got to know some rather Snapey type Professors at 
Uni too.  Debate or no debate, they could tear you to shreds if you 
were unprepared.  


> Nora:
> If he's so confident, so *right* that he's punishing the evil 
Sirius 
> responsible for Lily's death, he can't entertain any ideas to the 
> contrary?  I can possibly buy that, but it seems to me that you 
get 
> either 1) not-confident doesn't want to try to work through things 
in 
> detail Snape or 2) rabidly emotional not-thinking hothead Snape.  
> Don't forget those utterly charming threats made to Lupin, 
> too...there's a case of 'I've suspected you from the start, and 
> you're here, so what the hell, you MUST be guilty too!'  

June:
Once again, the mistake is to apply non-emotional ideas to the text 
book neurotic that Snape may well be.  He is NOT Lenin.  He was 
messed up fairly systematically through childhood and adolescence 
and I think that it now canon since OOP.  Confidence does not 
preclude emotional reaction to issues.  I reiterate, he had very 
good reason to believe Sirius guilty in the affair of the Potters' 
deaths,as did the entire Wizarding World.  So why should he stop to 
consider an alternative ending to that question?  Lupin is also 
(from an outside point of view) acting in a way that is highly 
suspect - and Snape has pretty good reason not to like any member of 
that cosy little gang MWPP.  See the Pensieve scene if the details 
of what happened in the Prank don't convince.  Why should he spend 
even a moment listening to any apology about Sirius Black's 
behaviour - in his place I wouldn't.

Nora:
>> Well, yes; or Snape can't handle the idea that, god forbid, he 
might 
> possibly be WRONG about Black, and needs to get the evidence out 
of 
> the way...or, even nastier, Snape knows that there's something 
wrong 
> here and thus *really* wants to get the evidence out of the way... 
> *grin*  I'm frustrated that we've found out no more about the 
> dynamics of that night.  The DISHWASHER (in its earlier 
incarnations) 
> has always been an oddly attractive explanation, if somewhat 
tortuous.

June:
He's not looking for "evidence" to be got out of the way because 
he's not being that cold and calculating.  He's ballistic with 
rage.  He just wants Sirius Black to get his just deserts.  

> 
> -Nora welcomes any off-list response as well, and is always happy 
to 
> get her mind off of doing Real Work (any opera fans out there?)

June:
Boris Godunov, Tristan and Isolde, The Ring, Tannhauser, Tosca, 
Nabucco, Aida, Carmen, Rigoletto... to name but a few;-)