[HPforGrownups] Re: Bang! You're dead.

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 86409




> > "The Loudest Noise Comes From The Electric Minerva."
> >
> Kneasy:
> What's an Electric  Minerva? Or am I going to  regret asking?
>
>
K

That's my sig line but my e-mail prog insists on putting quoted text at the
bottom and sig at the top and I forgot to move it. OT have been playing
around with an ad slogan generator. You put in a word and it slots it into a
slogan - hence the above sig.  And I have no idea what an electric Minerva
is but it sounds fun :)


> Kneasy:
> Ah! Old Nicks Handbook of Practical Politics. Love it. He doesn't seem to
have
> much truck with morality, does he? He goes for what he terms 'virtue',
which
> seems to be a meld of pragmatism and just rule. His 'Discourses' are good,
too.
> What do you think he would recommend in the circumstances? Death for
Voldy,
> Malfoy, plus the other DEs and their children of course, with permanent
exile
> for all who dissent.
> Seems reasonable.
>

He's demand harsh and immediate punishment, probably death for those known
Death Eaters (ie the ones who turned up at the graveyard) and there probably
wouldn't be any dissenters. He might order their families killed too on the
grounds that you should punish someone harshly or not at all - slight
injuries are brooded over and eventually lead to rebellion. I doubt there'd
*be* any dissent if Machiavelli had taken Fudge's place.


> >
> Kneasy:

> Given Harry's situation - a homicidal, paranoid megolamanic is trying to
> blow his head off - would the morality of what he (Harry) does be at the
> fore-front of his thinking? Very unlikely. And then for DD to come out
with
> "It's either you or him; best of luck." doesn't exactly offer many
options.
>

K
Well that's all right I hope Harry's decided to ignore Dumbledore from now
on anyway, he's never much help, provides information too late and why he
thought that telling a teenager who's just lost the only adult he could view
as a parental substitute that it was Sirius' own fault because of how he
treated the Elf was a good plan is beyond me. He seems to have developed
absolutely no skills for dealing with the emotional well being of people
over the last 150 years.


> Kneasy:
> Makes you wonder why they're described and circumscribed in the way
> they  are. Back to the old argument that a gun is not evil of itself, only
> the way that it is used.
>

K

It seems pointless because there are other fairly easy ways to kill people
with magic anyway provided you have any imagination - all the ways that are
currently springing to mind are vaguely Wile E Coyote, but I think that says
more about me than the magical world.


> Kneasy:
> Sorry to keep  harping on about  previous postings, but I had a go at
> this as well (Prophets without honour). Anyone can make a 'prophecy' - but
> only *after* the event can the accuracy be determined. Even then
rationalising
> of the events may occur. It's probably a  red herring concocted by JKR to
keep
> us  from digging into more potentially productive seams.
>
K

I must admit I didn't read the prophecy threads. I wonder if at the same
time as giving the prophecy about Harry Trelawney had added, oh and btw
Dumbledore's going to die next Tuesday, he'd have been as keen to accept it
as the only possible way things can happen and not tried to fight it. This
idea that seems to be showing up in the books that prophecy is immutable and
things *will* happen that way smakes of 'fate' and 'predestination' and
neither of those concepts fit well with the idea of our choices being
important. I wonder though is this why Dumbledore seems to ignore Harry
getting into danger - he's going to die at the hand of Voldemort so as long
as he's in danger from *other* things, he can't die? Snape obviously doesn't
know this because he didn't know Quirrel was carrying around a guest so he
could have assumed he didn't need to try and fight the hex on the broomstick
because Harry couldn't be killed by Quirrel. Oh I'd like to have seen that -
Harry falls off the broom and breaks his neck, Snape runs down to examine
the body, looks up at Albus and says "oops?"


> >
> Kneasy:
> Normally I'd agree. But Barty was a hanging judge. Wheel 'em in -  "Have
you
> anything to say before sentence is passed?" -  wheel 'em out to Azkaban.
> Effective, you must admit. Another theory (!) of mine is that old Barty
was
> brought down by disgruntled Voldy supporters -  young Barty was
deliberately
> set up to be caught, putting his father in a cleft stick; nepotism or
public
> disgust. And so enters Fudge -  friend of many of Voldy's supporters.
> Suddenly, not so many DEs  go to the slammer any more. Not so keen to
> find any, either.
>
K

Actually I was thinking that Fudge only got the job because the best
candidate was discredited just before he would have been appointed. Isn't
that convenient for Fudge?

Kneasy
> You  may have the traditional view of human rights; all very noble.
> But our glorious leader, T Blair Esq., with the help of his little
friends, is in
> the process of revising their applicability. Aren't we lucky! Star Chamber
> revisited.
>
K

What can I say I'm a loony liberal and I won't say any more on this subject
because it'd be terribly OT
>

> Kneasy:
 Dark curses *are* part
> of the curriculum, but not normally until the sixth year. Moody comes in
and
> tells them they are way behind with curses, and as a specialist (who is
only here
> for one year), and as a special treat this is what we'll cover now. After
all, who
> knows if you'll have a decent teacher available in the sixth  year. OK, he
was a
> fake, but why did  DD  get the real Moody out of retirement? A star
Auror -
> very  useful if you want young Potter to have some real protection.
> Occlumancy, on the other hand, is not on the curriculum, hence private
lessons.
>
>
K

I agree it was an easy way of slipping it in - I was just arguing that it
wasn't the only way. If he wanted Harry to learn something special he could
have got Lupin to teach him, he was the first teacher Dumbledore had good
reason to trust with something like that (being an Order member like Moody
was - or wasn't because he was an imposter, but Dumbledore didn't know that
for some reason). Actually Occulomancy is the first time we see him trying
to make sure Harry learns something useful - the Patronus after all was all
Lupin's doing - and that has a selfish motive as well as to protect Harry.
Keeping Voldemort out of Harry's mind would protect him too - of course the
lessons were probably moving Severus even higher on Voldemort's kill list
(assuming that's possible).

K
>

"The Loudest Noise Comes From The Electric Minerva."