The diary (Was: Snape as a Spy and Spy!Lucius, too!)

justcarol67 justcarol67 at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 4 22:03:15 UTC 2003


No: HPFGUIDX 86506

Carol's (my) first theory: 
<snip> I still don't understand how Lucius got hold of the diary, 
which couldn't have been left in the Riddle house at the time of the
murders. <snip> Maybe Voldemort told Lucius that it was at Hogwarts 
and Lucius forced Dobby to find it and bring it to him? 

Constance Vigilance's response [snipped by Julie]:
... I think  LV gave it to him during VWI. Lucius was a trusted
lieutenant at that time, probably the highest-ranking one. I think LV
gave him many personal belongings for safe keeping.

Carol's (my) revised theory [snipped by Julie]:
...TR wrote the diary in 1943 and left Hogwarts in 1945. It's highly
improbable that he carried it around during his travels from 1945-1970
while he was busy transforming himself and trying to become immortal.
 I think it's much more likely that he left it at Hogwarts in some
secure place just before he graduated in 1945.... [The main point,
snipped here, is that the job of retrieving it was entrusted to the
newly recruited Lucius Malfoy while he was still a Slytherin.]
 
Julie responds:
I can well imagine Voldemort entertaining a few of his most trusted 
cadre with tales of his early days, so as you say Lucius could well 
have had some idea of what he was unleashing when he planted Tom's 
diary on Ginny. And since presumably Malfoy Mansion is a large house 
& estate it makes sense that Voldemort might have kept a few things 
in storage there <snip> 

Carol:
Okay, but I think you've blended Constance V's scenario with mine and
overlooked our respective main points. I was solely concerned with how
Lucius obtained the diary, which I thought and still think must have
been left at Hogwarts. She suggested that he obtained it from LV
during VW1 and kept it (along with a few other treasured possessions)
under the floorboards of his mansion. I was trying to reconcile her
time frame with my theory. The key point (for me) was that LV would
not have taken it with him while he was traveling the WW during
1945-1970. He must have left it behind him somewhere. It couldn't have
been his Muggle father's house, where he had committed three murders.
He had no other "home" except an orphanage, and of course he wouldn't
have left any possessions there. (I have a feeling that, beyond his
clothes, his wand, his schoolbooks, and the diary, he didn't have many
possessions to worry about anyway.)

Julie:
So while I can see this as one way Lucius might have gotten possession
of some of Voldemort's possessions, I can also see another senario.  
 
Voldemort's trip to Godric's Hollow was supposed to be a quick 
assassination.  He didn't expect the destruction of his physical 
body, especially by a baby.  Even if he had placed a few cherished 
items in "safe keeping," its likely that the morning after saw a 
group of stunned Death-Eaters milling around the DE Central or 
Voldemort's own personal home mournfully wondering what to do next. 
How to carry on the good fight now that the great man himself is gone 
sort of discussion. Its quite possible that Voldemort's belongings 
were divided up amongst his most devoted followers (or snatched as 
keepsakes by those of lesser stature). Now that he's back in the 
flesh, he might want to round up a few things (dark artifacts, rare 
spell books, personal papers, his old school diary, his mum's photo, 
etc)  
<snip>

Carol:
I think we're looking at a different time sequence here. I'm assuming
that the diary was left at Hogwarts, so it was either picked up by
Lucius long before Godric's Hollow or by Dobby long afterward. The
first assumption seems much stronger at this point, as I've already
indicated. Whether there were any other possessions, I don't know, but
they're not really relevant to my argument.

As for stunned Death Eaters mournfully wandering around Godric's
Hollow, that could account for LV's wand being found (presumably by
Peter Pettigrew, who's the only one who could have returned it to him
before the graveyard scene), but no other possessions would have been
found there, least of all the diary. And I confess it never occurred
to me that Tom Riddle/Voldemort--orphan, murderer, wanderer--might
have a personal home. Remember, young Tom Riddle had no home to return
to but the orphanage, which is why he stopped petrifying muggle-borns
and framed Hagrid--so he wouldn't be sent back there if Hogwarts was
closed down. He may have lived with one of his followers as a guest,
but how could a homeless orphan who had wandered the WW for 25 years
have his own house? He certainly didn't have one when he started his
wanderings in 1945, which is another reason why I think that the diary
(which was written at and related to Hogwarts) must have been left at
Hogwarts, regardless of when it was found.

In any case, finding the diary would have nothing to do with rounding
up his former possessions and settling down in comfort with a few
keepsakes. It was part of a long-conceived plan to rid Hogwarts of
muggle-borns. And it must have been Lucius himself who decided to
implement this charming idea since he wasn't in communication with
Voldemort, who was newly dislodged from Quirrell's head at the time
and still without a body to inhabit.

Carol (who now wonders where Voldemort *did* live during VW1, now that
Julie has raised the question, but is still primarily concerned about
the diary and Lucius's connection with it)





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