The diary (Was: Snape as a Spy and Spy!Lucius, too!)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 86538

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:

> Lucius would have discovered nothing in the diary's blank pages and
> the name Tom Marvolo Riddle on the binding would not have suggested
> that the owner was a Muggle or Muggle-born. Marvolo would, in fact,
> suggest that the owner was a wizard. And if Lucius wrote in the 
diary
> to find out what it was about, that suspicion would of course have
> been confirmed. Tom Riddle would have told him only as much as he
> thought Lucius ought to know, and then only after finding out who
> Lucius was himself. It would make much more sense for Lucius to 
have
> had an experience like Ginny's as a schoolboy. He would know what
> would happen if she started writing in it. I don't see any 
connection
> between the diary and the Riddle House, or any need for Malfoy to 
buy
> the diary. I also don't see any necessity of his discovering 
through
> the diary that Voldemort was Tom Riddle unless Tom himself told him
> about the "I AM LORD VOLDEMORT" anagram or Voldemort sent young 
Lucius
> to find the diary.

Jen R: Isn't that what you've been arguing on this thread, that 
Lucius is in possession of the diary because LV directed him to it 
at Hogwarts? Here you are suggesting Lucius simply found it at 
Hogwarts on his own. That is a different thought, and not the one I 
was responding to. 

My problem is not with Lucius finding the diary at Hogwarts--it 
seems a stretch to me that he would keep it for so long without 
using it, but there's nothing to disprove that.  My problem was with 
your point in an earlier post that LV trusted Lucius with his Muggle 
diary, bought in Muggle London, with his Muggle name on it. How many 
clues does Lucius need to put two and two together? That's what I 
was speaking to in my previous point, up-thread.

> Carol:
> Young Tom Riddle would not have left any of his possessions in the
> Riddle House, which was never his and was the site of his family's
> murder. He had no home but the orphanage. Nor would it give Lucius
> any advantage to own the Riddle House, which belonged to rich 
Muggles,
> not the unacknowledged son and grandson who was also their 
murderer.

Jen R: 
My thought about Lucius 'obtaining other Riddle possessions' was 
vague, but I don't think he found Riddle's school things in the 
Riddle house, either. My idea about Lucius finding Riddle's things 
in Knockturn Alley was in reference to the scene at Borgins. I found 
that scene very interesting, symbolic of the "Dark" side of the WW, 
and there's Lucius Malfoy obviously in his element. He seems to have 
the gift of appearing to belong wherever he goes--very useful. He 
seems very familiar in Borgins, used to doing business. And after 
this scene we go to Flourish and Blotts where Lucius slips the diary 
into Ginny's cauldron. No, I don't think he purchased it that day, 
but there's some continuity in these scenes to suggest where Lucius 
may have found the diary. 

Now as for Lucius owning the Riddle House, my canon is light but 
intriguing: "The wealthy man who owned the Riddle House these days 
neither lived there not put it to any use; they said in the village 
that he kept it for "tax reasons," though nobody was very clear what 
these might be." (GOF, US, chap. 1, p. 4)

That says to me that the house has a fairly new owner, a wealthy 
owner, who makes no gain from the purchase, yet pays Frank Bryce to 
care for it. Why? Now it could simply be a way to make the point 
that the house is empty and thus easy for LV and Wormtail to live 
in, but we already know that--the "nasty feeling about the place" 
sent the prior occupants away. 

The Riddle House may come to nothing in the future, but at least one 
other person knows it exists and is keeping an eye on it--
Dumbledore. He's immediately aware of the death of Frank Bryce in 
this remote village by reading a Muggle newspaper--what made him 
suspect LV would go back there if it wasn't of some significance? 

I'm just not ready to rule it out yet, that's all.

Jen Reese