Nature of the Unforgivables - Event vs Sustained

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 87029

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Derek Hiemforth <derek at r...> wrote:
> two4menone4you88 at a... wrote:
> >I think what Bellatrix meant is that for each curse you have to
really want 
> >the thing it does.  for example for the AK curse you would have to
really want 
> >to kill someone.  In that case Sirius and Lupin could have killed
Peter since 
> >they really wanted to.
> 
> Derek:
> At risk of repeating myself from an earlier post, I think it's more
> than that.  I think you have to take actual pleasure in it, not just
> have a genuine wish to see it happen.  
>
> ...edited..
> 
> Don't get me wrong; they *would* have killed him had Harry not 
> intervened. But I fully believe they would have had to do so by 
> means other than AK.
> 
> - Derek

bboy_mn:

On this issue, I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with
'two4menone4you'. I believe it takes strong directed intent to make
the Unforgivables function; you have to want the person dead, but I
don't believe it take joyous intent. 

An Auror might with great regret and reluctance cast the AK curse, but
at the same time, may do it with the full, unyielding, and
unquestionable intent of killing the bad guy. In that circumstance, I
firmly believe the curse would work.

I will admit that it goes beyond intent, one must have a powerful,
refined, and well-honed bit of magic behind it. I believe that is why
fake!Moody said he wouldn't even get a nose bleed if the whole class
cursed him. The students' magic is too unrefind, undeveloped, unskill,
and generally lacking sufficient power, plus, I'm sure fake!Moody
would be confident that the students could never gather sufficient
intent to cause his death. Hitting some one effectively with the AK
curse is FAR FAR more demanding that hitting them with a 'giggle' curse.

Although a bit unrefinded, we know that Harry is a powerful, gifted,
and out of the ordinary wizard, so why didn't his Cruciatus Curse work? 

Well, first of all, it did; it did work. He cast pain, and Belatrix
felt pain. To what extent the curse MIGHT have been able to work, we
don't know because Harry cast it improperly. 

We have seen two kinds of curse in this series of books, event driven
and sustained curses. Event drive is like firing a gun, it's cast, it
happens, it's done; BANG your stunned. 

The Cruciatus Curse on the other hand is a sustained curse, you can't
just cast it then step back and let it run it's course. It must be
cast and held with sustained intent. 

In every case of this curse in the book, the caster sustains the curse
until he willfully and consciously chooses to lift it. I have to
conclude that the Imperious Curse works the same way; it's not a set
it and forget it. The caster has to maintain willfull intent in order
to hold the victum in his spell. Although, in that case, to make it
practical, the cast could just maintain his intent in the back of his
mind. To be practical, he couldn't keep walking around all day
repearing to himself; I'm cursing Bill, and Fred, and John, and Dick,
and Tom, and.... It must leave the caster free to function normally,
but at the same time, in the back of his mind he must maintain and
awareness and intent of the people he is controlling.

The malicious joy that Belatrix takes in casting the Cruciatus Curse
would act to fuel her intent. It would act to re-enforce and magnifiy
the effect of the curse, by magnifying her intent, and intensifying
the magical power behind the curse. So, evil sadistic joy by the
caster would certainly amplify the curse, but I don't believe it is
required to make the curse happen.

To your last point, that it was unlikely that Sirius and Remus
intended to kill Peter with a true AK/Death Curse, I agree. A good
example of a potentially lethal curse is the Reductor Curse, used to
blast your way through solid objects. I think blasting a hole in my
chest or my head would kill me. 

In addition, we know that when several wizards simultaneously cast the
same curse, there curses cascade upon each other thereby amplifying
the effect of the curse. When four wizards cast with equal intent, the
result if at least four times the initial intent, and therefore
potentially devastating and even deadly.

We know that with sufficient intent and magical power, Dumbledore was
able to disintegrate a heavy door and still have enough energy in his
stunning curse to easily knock fake!Moody unconscious. Imagine if four
wizards had simultaniously hit someone with a stunning curse that
intense. If that didn't kill you, it would certainly make you wish you
were dead. The resulting injuries would have to be substantial. Let's
not forget that McGonagall was almost kill by a group stunning curse.

Also, keep in mind that Remus and Sirius are brilliant knowledgable
experienced wizards, they know many many many more spells the us poor
readers do. Certianly they would have had a wide range of potentially
distructive spells and curses to choose from.

Just a few thoughts.

bboy_mn