[HPforGrownups] Re: The title Madam = Mrs. 'Gran' Longbottom

[Jen Faulkner]

No: HPFGUIDX 87123

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Steve wrote:

> It's also possible that Mrs. 'Gran' Longbottom was well know enough in
> the wizarding community that most people had referred to her as 'Mrs'
> for many years and continue with that habit.

Dependant on one's arguments about size of the WW/Hogwarts, it's
perfectly possible that many people know which women are married, and
which are not.  The title "Mrs." can only be used of a married woman,
but it is possible that many people in the WW know that Gran was (she's
widowed, yes?) married, since the Longbottoms seem to be 'old stock',
aristocrats whose family relations would be common knowledge, and thus
people would know Gran is entitled to "Mrs."  Certainly the staff at St.
Mungo's would know that, since they come into contact with her
frequently.

> Also, the use of 'Madam' indicates or implies some social distance
> between the individuals; some one with whom your relationship and
> association is very formal and distant. Mrs. 'Gran' Longbottom has
> been coming to the hospital ward on a weekly basis for over a decade.
> That, perhaps, has narrowed the social formality between the Healer,
> other hospital staff, and Mrs. 'Gran' Longbottom.

I'd disagree here -- I suspect that "Mrs." actually is not a mark of
informality at all, but rather a traditional marker of respect for a
woman who has achieved a *traditional* high-prestige state: married
respectable wife who does not work outside the home.

"Madam" seems to me to function (as a title, not a detached apostrophic
mode of address, i.e., "That's be five sickles, madam") much like modern
(American) "Ms." -- used for women whose marital status is irrelevant on
account of their being professionals, working outside the home (in
addition to by women who do not want their marital status to affect
their title, etc.).  But I would expect an older generation of women who
do not have an occupation outside the home to in fact resist being
called "Madam," to insist upon the proper traditionally-respectful title
"Mrs."  (My grandmother, for instance, is quite proud of being "Mrs.
[her husband's name]," and she does not like to be addressed, either in
speaking or writing, as "Ms.")

Gran seems to me to be exactly the sort of older woman who would've
grown up expecting to be a "Mrs." and continues in that expectation now.
It would, I think, be insulting to her to imply that her marital status
was irrelevant or questionable -- she *was* married, thankyouverymuch,
and she would want that acknowledged.

I'd guess. :)

--Jen :)

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