[HPforGrownups] HP and the democratic equilibrium(Re: Umbridge, brooms and DEs)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 87166

On 16 Dec 2003 at 7:58, Geoff Bannister wrote:

> Geoff:
> I dunno. I drop a few thoughts into the group, go to bed and here I 
> am, at 7.30 in the morning faced with a whole screenfuls of replies. 
> Without repeating too many thoughts, just a couple of pennyworths of 
> my own:

Shaun:
Well, that's what happens when you engage in luxuries like sleep

(-8
 
> Berit:
> 
> > I agree with Shaun: I stayed at a college, a boarding school, in
> > Britain for four years, and can confirm his experience and knowledge
> > o British style, traditional boarding schools :-) Though unfair,
> > Umbridge had every "right" to confiscate Harry's broom...
> 
> Geoff:
> A right being unfair sounds like a breeding ground for trouble. At a 
> much higher level, it has been known to fuel things like apartheid, 
> IRA problems in Northern Ireland and civle rights in the US....

Shaun:
*If* the school environment is *generally* a good one, kids will 
(and did) tolerate the occasional unfair act. One reason why I do 
think the Hogwarts students would be quite likely to, to a great 
extent, accept Umbridge's unfair treatment (and Snape's on 
occasion) as more or less natural is because their *general* 
experience at Hogwarts is of a fair school.

I suppose what I would say is that it's unlikely this would be a 
cause of trouble in itself - trouble would only likely develop *if* 
it's part of a general pattern (as over time, it certainly becomes 
at Hogwarts under Umbridge).
 
> Shaun:
> > In loco parentis is an *incredibly* powerful Common Law principle -
> > and was even more so in the past. A teacher under British Common
> > Law did have virtually the full powers of a parent over their
> > students.
> 
> Geoff:
> Hm, but a lot of UK parents are getting rather hard-nosed nowadays 
> and see anything like that as an infringement of "Little Johnnie's" 
> rights. For the last few years, some kids (the Malfoys of this 
> world?) have only got to mutter to their parents about things not 
> being to their  taste and the latter are beating a path to the 
> classroom door or the head's office......

Shaun:
Yes, definitely true - but that's a fairly recent development for 
the most part, and I don't think we see much sign of it at Hogwarts 
1996.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
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need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
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