[HPforGrownups] Fidelius swap was Re: The Sorting Hat

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 87523


> Mandy here:
> I think my point may be muddled because I'm playing with
> supposition.  I am working with ideas that I have about Peter and not
> necessarily canon. So my apologies.  You are right in as far as
> information we have on Peter right now is limited.
>
> I'm a big fan of Peter Pettigrew for reasons that he reminds me of
> myself in school.  Tagging along behind a trio of popular girls,
> suffering all kinds of crap from them because of my desires to be
> wanted and included in the `cool' gang. I know what it feels like to
> place my desire of acceptance above my own self worth.  It was at
> times hell, but I'm grown up now and learned from my mistakes.  But I
> feel deeply for Peter and as a result don't want to believe he just
> turned against James for no little reason. Foolish perhaps, but JKR
> is famous for fleshing her characters with multi dimensions, so
> perhaps not too foolish.

K

I don't think there is any deeper reason at all. I think that like you said
he wanted acceptance and he *knew* they would never see him as an equal. And
as much as he wqanted to be one of the gang he resented them for that. And
eventually he turned to Voldemort because if he couldn't be respected he'd
settle for being feared, and as a Death Eater he would be feared regardless
of who he was - i know he was only a spy up until the death of the Potters
but he wasn't planning on Voldemort zapping himself, he was expecting
Voldemort to kill all of them and for him to get the 'credit' - although I
certainly think there's some Slytherin in him, because he ahd a back up plan
in case it all went wrong! He's obviously not stupid.
>

>
> Mandy here:
> Irresponsible yes, but in the question of bravery did Sirius think
> Peter was better able to withstand Voldemort?  If Sirius was afraid
> he would break, why give the job to someone else? Is that a
> complement of the other persons strength and ability?  Or is it
> cowardly behavior to knowingly putting your friend out there to
> suffer in your place?
K

In Sirius' plan Peter wouldn't break - because Peter wouldn't get caught. If
anyone did it would be Sirius and he could hope to die before telling
anything but not actually have anything to tell - just in case. There's no
way to make the Potter's perfectly safe, but this added an extra stage -
like my allusion (at least the one I intended to make earlier in this
thread - not sure if I did) to the Resistance in WWII. They used cut outs so
that couriers wouldn't be able to give away their contacts. Obviously they
could give away the cut out and then the cut out would be interrogated and
could give away the contact but it would slow the process down, hopefully
enough that evidence could be hidden and people could hide/run.

Mandy
 It is indeed a difficult choice for Sirius.
> What is right opposed to what is easy?  If Sirius truly chose the
> responsible path, knowing people would believe him a coward, over the
> irresponsible path just to play the hero, I will see Sirius in a very
> different light.  That would be the choice of a true hero.
>

K
What Sirius did is like when famous people in danger of assasination have a
duplicate appear - he was the decoy to draw the danger and fire away from
Peter so that Peter could do the job that needed to be done. I wonder how
long they expected to be in hiding for? I mean Voldemort didn't look like he
was about to disappear when the Potters went into hiding - I know they were
trying to protect their son but how long were they planning on hiding in
that house - till he turned 18?
>

> Mandy here:
> No the same rule applies to all three of them, but I judge Sirius
> harsher because I believe he was the best and only man for the job.
> Sirius didn't have anything at stake but his own life. Perhaps Peter
> did too which was why he made a good second choice. But Sirius is on
> record saying he would rather die that give up his friend.  Well, he
> had the chance to do just that and gave it up!  He gave it up,
> because he doubted his ability to hold out.  He knew he wouldn't be
> able to do it. That does not necessarily make him a coward but his
> choice did placed others at risk in his place.
>
K

I doubt he considered the risk to Peter because Peter wasn't supposed to be
in much danger. He was still risking his life for his friend because the bad
guys were supposed to believe he was the one with the knowledge, but Peter's
safety probably didn't cross his mind because a) Peter could have said no.
No one was *forced* into this plan. and b) because he truly expected Peter
to be willing to die to protect James the same way he was.

Mandy
> I am very hard on Sirius because of so many fans out there worship
> him as this brave, courageous hero.  He certainly was not.  Far from
> it.  I wouldn't call Sirius a coward, but he was incredibly selfish
> and arrogant.  Judging Peter by a mistake Sirius himself knew he
> would make.

K

There is a great difference between the 'mistake' Sirius believed he himself
would make - that of breaking under torture. And what he is judging Peter
for - *choosing* to spy on his friends. If Sirius had broken under torture
and given away information it would have been tragic, as it would have been
if Peter had, but Peter didn't give up information under torture he
willingly handed it over. You seem to want to believe Peter was protecting
his family or something by spying for Voldemort - but he no longer seems to
have a family and yet he continues to work for Voldemort. Not to mention
that while he may well have gone to jail or been kissed for spying for
Voldemort there would be no reason for him to be frightened for his family
if he confessed after the event *especially* since Voldemort wasn now gone -
but instead he killed 13 innocent people to save his own skin and framed a
supposed friend for the crime leaving him to rot in jail. Now it's possible
Peter acted originally out of a need to protect someone - although I doubt
it - but although that is forgivable, killing innocent people certainly
isn't and allowing Sirius to be convicted isn't either.

Mandy
>
> All I do know is that Sirius is showered with gold and Peter is
> treated with distain by most fans and neither deserve it.

K

Well I'm glad you think a cold-blooded murder doesn't deserve to be treated
with disdain, but I happen to think he does. Sirius may have made a wrong
choice in switching with Peter but he did so believing he was acting in the
best interests of his friend. Peter on the other hand acts only in his own
interests - and while that may not be evil in itself, he is *directly*
responsible for 15 deaths, 13 of them by his own hand and indirectly
responsible for who knows how many more due to his actions in aiding in the
rise of Voldemort in the last few years.

K