Whoa Nelly! Lots of Snape, was Harry in NEWT Potions Class?

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 87713

Hi, Amanda! Let me just say that so far I find your post in Snape 
defense to be the most persuasive and eloquently put. Nevertheless 
I'd like to disagree with some of your points too.

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" <editor at t...> 
wrote:
or dead, and that is fine by
> Amanda:
> 
> Okay, I'd like to do some timeline-ing here. It will be quick and 
dirty as I
> flip through the book, corrections invited. But it seems to me that 
this
> episode has as much potential for misinterpretation as the 
Shrieking Shack,
> in terms of what Snape does and where he is and what he knows at 
which time.
> does not say when he came back out, or what he found there; we do 
know he
> did *not* find Dolores Umbridge, but I personally can't blame him 
for not
> looking for her real hard.]
> 
>
I have no canon to contradict your analysis, I base my doubts on 
Severus behaviour in other situations.

> Amanda:
> 
> I think Snape has several reasons for not continuing to teach 
Harry. Look at
> them, though, from the perspective of one who must stand and face 
Voldemort
> and lie to him.
> 
> One, surely, is that his hatred of James is too strong. That hatred 
is
> spilling over on to Harry, understandably. But the *specific 
memory* of the
> deepest reasons for the hatred are spilling over onto Harry now, 
via this
> Pensieve incident. This will make it more difficult, I'd think, to 
keep
> James-connected hatred/incidents and Harry-connected 
hatred/incidents
> separate--which I believe Snape must be able to do in order to 
successfully
> "shut down those feelings and memories that contradict the lie." 
Harry
> knowing about all this, could endanger Snape's ability to 
successfully lie
> to Voldemort.
> 
> Which, I'll admit, Snape probably seized on as a great excuse 
because he is
> still so pissed off at James. That doesn't mean it may not be valid 
in
> itself.
> 
> Okay, two. Snape has already as much as told Harry that he [Snape] 
spies on
> Voldemort. Further deep explorations with a boy about whom 
Voldemort is
> likely to be very concerned and want more information on, may also 
endanger
> Snape's role as a spy, by putting dangerous revelations into 
memories that
> Snape must let closer to the surface in speaking to Voldemort.
> 
> And, edging now into how Snape would have received an apology from 
Harry, fo
> r any of what I believe are *several* instances where one is 
warranted: I
> believe Snape would have received him poorly. Or at least, Harry 
would have
> thought so.
> 
> For I believe that Snape's entire modus operandi has been a 
deliberate
> effort to maintain his attitudes, in preparation for this current 
state
> where he is in Voldemort's circle again. Snape must keep his 
feelings about
> certain people, his memories, consistent in order to facilitate his 
use of
> Occlumency to lie to Voldemort. He must possess true memories of 
favoring
> Draco. He must possess true memories of hating Harry. The emotions 
attached
> to those individuals and those memories must be accurate; and so 
Snape has
> never made any attempt to alter those; has ignored oppportunities to
> recognize other motives in Harry than he ascribes, etc. Snape 
cannot let
> himself change his opinions of these two--or more accurately, he 
cannot
> allow himself to build up emotions or memories where they are 
concerned that
> would invalidate the face he presents to Voldemort.
> 
> We already know that the plan put into motion at the end of GoF, 
for which
> Snape was "ready" and "prepared," is one of long standing. Snape and
> Dumbledore both know exactly what they are talking about, what is 
being
> asked of Snape. So I submit that a lot--NOT all--of Snape's 
behavior towards
> Harry and Draco is deliberate, in preparation for being able to 
successfully
> lie to Voldemort via Occlumency. [I'm absolutely certain that 
Snape's past
> makes this pattern *easy* to facilitate; but I do believe that he 
made a
> conscious decision to do this, as well.]
> 
> I also think this is why Snape never eats at Sirius' house. He 
can't afford
> to have a memory of liking these people, eating with them, in any 
setting
> where his mind may relax. I think he probably has all his planning
> conversations with Dumbledore, and debriefs the Order, in the same 
place
> (where he can control the memory of it) and after some mental 
preparations
> (where he can control the emotions of it).



OK, I love, love, love this part of your analysis too. But and here 
comes my disagreement - supposedly before Dumbledore asked Snape to 
teach Harry Occlumency, he (on his own or together with Snape) went 
through all these reasons and decided that it is more important to 
teach Harry and Snape has to risk his cover. Correct?

So, it is even worse offense in my book for Snape deciding on his own 
to stop the lessons.

You know, I would be so happy if Snape for once used his great 
bullying skills for a good cause and forced Harry to continue the 
lessons. I would have forgiven him, becuase it really would have been 
for a greater good. :o)
Oh, well. I can dream.
 
> If you're talking whose actions brought it about? Intent aside? 
Just who did
> what that caused what? I would have to say Harry. He had not 
understood what
> he'd been told about the link between himself and Voldemort, and so 
when
> Voldemort began to use it, he was unprepared; he ignored Hermione's
> reasoning; he forgot Snape was an Order resource; after he 
remembered, he
> didn't go back and *get* Snape, but instead, charged off to London 
and
> required rescuing.
>

Well, I strongly disagree for the reasons I stated in my earlier 
posts. Harry is the last person to blame even judging by his actions. 
He was not told enough about the link between him and Voldemort. 
Maybe I will beforced to eat my words again, but can you tell me 
where in the OoP Harry was told that Voldemort will try and plant 
FALSE visions in his mind about Department of Mysteries?


I also really hope that Snape will get DADA in the Book 6. Here he 
will finally not have an upper hand in his interactions with Harry.


Alla