What's annoying about Harry (WAS: Characters you hate)

[Tom Wall <thomasmwall@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51390

I WROTE:
Also, I don't see where the yellow flag comes from.
I wrote "If Harry WOULD just *tell* Dumbledore."  
When had nothing to do with it. IF Harry had been 
sensible and told Dumbledore right away, much might 
have been avoided. But luckily for us, Harry is not 
too sensible (logical, but not sensible) - otherwise 
we wouldn't have had much of a story. ;-)


GREY WOLF REPLIED: 
"When" has *everything* to do with it. Yellow flag is canon 
violation. You said Harry could've stopped most attacks if he had 
told Dumbledore - but he can't the first time he gets to talk to 
Dumbledore is after the attack on Nick, which is the second to last. 

I REPLY:
Hah hah - Is there a flag for fact violation? ;-) I never said 
anything about the scene in Dumbledore's office.


GREY WOLF WROTE:
However, please note that I did say "Pale" because Harry could've 
looked up Dumbledore in other ocasions (after some of the attacks, 
for example). 

I REPLY:
Exactly - he could have told Dumbledore at any time after the attack 
on Mrs. Norris, starting with the scene in Lockhart's office, when 
Snappe correctly points out that Harry is not being totally honest.


GREY WOLF WROTE:
I'm pretty sure that all the teachers had realised that 
the monster was a basilisk by now (OK, all except Lockhart). 
 
I REPLY:
There's no canon to support that. Is that just a MD thing?

GREY WOLF REPLIED TO MY REPLY: 
It has nothing to do with MD (little of CoS has). Let me expose the 
facts:
1) the creature is the pet of Salazar Slytherin, famous parseltongue, 
whose heraldic symbol is a snake
2) the creature paralizes.
 
I had figured myself that the creature was a basilisk after the 
attack on Mrs Norris, and I didn't even know point 1 at the time. 
Dumbledore has been through one series of attacks already. It would 
take an idiot not to know by then that the creature was a basilisk, 
after all the details Dumbledore has, and Dumbledore is *NOT* an 
idiot.
END QUOTE.

I REPLY:
I'm not sure I agree with you on that. 

1) The Chamber of Secrets is a legend that Binns disputes in 
the "present" day: 

"It is a myth! It does not exist! There is not a shred of evidence 
that Slytherin ever built so much as a secret broom cupboard!"  
Professor Binns, CoS 152.

Even after Riddle's attacks, Binns denies that the Chamber exists. 
Which means that it is far from established fact in the WW that any 
of the teachers knew anything. It is definitely not in canon.

2) Hagrid is booted as a result of the first attacks, and returned as 
gamekeeper only because of Dumbledore, who argues Hagrid's case to 
Dippet. But does that mean that Dippet and the previous staff (sans 
Dumbledore) thought an acromantula could have caused the attack on 
Myrtle? Doubtful, as an acromantula can't paralyze. 

Therefore, there was and is (until the end of CoS) serious debate 
within the WW over the existence of the Chamber, it's nature, AND its 
contents as well.

You're inferring from the facts that we, as readers, know, that THEY 
as teachers must've also known what was going on. And that inference 
is not backed up by canon at all.

3) Dumbledore, it would appear, knows, at least, that the 
Chamber exists:

"It means," said Dumbledore," that the Chamber of Secrets is indeed 
open again." (CoS 180) 

But never in canon is it indicated that Dumbledore knew what was 
inside the chamber.

"No second year could have done this," said Dumbledore firmly. "It 
would take Dark Magic of the most advanced -" (Cos 142)

In fact, Dumbledore's suggestion that dark magic could have been 
involved indicates that, far from being certain as to the contents of 
the chamber, he and the rest of the staff only have guesses.

-Tom