Accio-proof Items (WAS:Re: House points and Dumbledore)

[annemehr <annemehr@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51401

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Grey Wolf <greywolf1 at j...>" 
<greywolf1 at j...> wrote:
> Annemehr wrote:
 the 
neccessity 
> > of having some things Accio-proof would explain perfectly the fact 
> > that none of the Triwizard champions bothered to point their wands 
and 
> > say "Accio Egg!"
> > 

> 
> There are two canon problems with this. The first one is that we 
know 
> of ways to stop people from aparating, but there is no canon 
whatsoever 
> to make us think that there is such thing as an anti-accioing 
charms. 
> It's not a yellow flag, since there is nothing against it either, 
but I 
> for one think it is higly unlikely - that sort of spell would be too 
> specific for be of any use. After all, you could probably use half a 
> dozen other spells that are more or less similar (like repelling 
chars 
> repelling the object towards you) by simply wishing it so - the 
> conection between intent and end result of the spells has been 
widely 
> discused and accepted.

Hmm... maybe.  Perhaps it would have required a general 
"spell-repelling charm" to force the champions to take the egg with 
their own hands, if such a thing is possible.
> 
> The second point is that we *do* know that accio charm wouldn't have 
> worked particularly well (if at all) during the first challenge. 1) 
> Because the dragon was sitting on the eggs, so there is no place for 
> the egg to leave.

Well, GoF, "The First Task" says, "And there was the Horntail, at the 
other end of the enclosure, crouched low over her clutch of eggs,..."
which I always read as being closely *over* them but not actually *on* 
them (see my reply to #2 below).

 2) Visual contact or familiarity seems to ba a 
must 
> for the spell

Familiarity?  How do we know Harry couldn't have just pictured a 
golden egg in his mind and that that would not have been enough to go 
on?  But then, GoF says, just after Harry had taken off on his 
Firebolt, "He looked down at the clutch of eggs and spotted the gold 
one, gleaming against its cement-colored fellows, residing safely 
between the dragon's fromt legs."  So, there has been no suggestion 
that the dragon has moved, the eggs are between her front legs, and I 
think Harry could certainly have used Accio on it now (unless 
magically prevented).

 and 3) The dragon hide absorbs magic and makes it 
null, 
> so any spell thrown towards the egg would be deflected or nullified 
by 
> the dragon itself before it could affect the egg.

No argument here, I just think the eggs were visible.
> 
> The solution is, of course, to distract the dragon away from the 
eggs, 
> which requires you to use magic constantly (or some other form of 
> distraction, as in Harry's case), and by the time the plan has 
actually 
> worked you've got so many spells in the air to get the dragon out of 
> the way that you are better off making a rush and grab approach.

As Ron describes things to Harry afterwards, the champions only used 
one spell each except for Fleur, who also had to put her robes out 
with water from her wand.

> 
> Hope that helps,

Yeah -- the debates help me have fun on this list!  ;)

> 
> Grey Wolf

Annemehr
<aside to Grey:  have you seen my new room in the Safe House yet?  I'm 
part of the MD cheerleading squad now, but still uncomfortably 
straddling three fences between the "straightforward" reading of PoA, 
the MD theory, and an Evil!Snape theory.  But -- I've promised to come 
down for one of them by the time OoP comes out...I'll dig out 
relevent TBAY post numbers if wanted...>