The Train Stomp vs. Dissin' The Slyths WAS Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: House points and Dumbledore, Authorial Intent, and A Question

[melclaros <melclaros@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51483

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ssk7882 <skelkins at a...>" 
<skelkins at a...> wrote:
> I asked if people had a different quality of reader response
> to two separate, yet remarkably similar, "symbolic trouncing
> of the designated enemy" scenes: the Point Award at the end
> of PS/SS, and the conflict on the train at the end of GoF.
> 
> Eileen was the only person who answered me directly.
> 
>

And I haven't answered yet at all since I wanted to excavate the book 
and read the scene again before doing so.
My first, gut reaction to your question was the simple answer that 
no, it didn't bother me *As Much* for the simple reason that it was 
performed by CHILDREN. (I do not believe in the moral superiority of 
chidren) The Leaving Feast "diss" was performed by an adult. Not just 
*any* adult, but THE primary authority figure, the ROLE MODEL of the 
WW for the children IN HIS CHARGE. (Please remember here that the 
argument is not whether or not Gryffindor won the cup, the argument 
is over how and when the announcement was handled.)

I stand by that.

Now that I've had a chance to re-read the actual scene I can add a 
further comment. 
Yes the attack on the train bothers me. It was a callous, mean--well 
as I just said Attack! Fred and George are the Worst offenders for 
1. Attacking from behind
2. Being older and supposedly knowing better
3. using the cold excuse "wanted to see what they were up to" (not 
exact quote)
They had to ATTACK from BEHIND to see what someone was UP TO? 

Draco, Crabbe and Goyle were being their usual one-dimensional, 
miserable, bigoted selves.  Draco wasn't saying anything he hadn't 
said before, in fact his words were nearly identical here as to what 
they were in CoS when the Chamber was opened: "You'll be next, 
mudbloods" (Note: I can't stand any of these boys, so don't take this 
as my standing up for their views.)

*I do not believe* that DD or ANY HW Professor would have stood for a 
5 way attack on ANY student for ANY reason. I wonder if there will  
be any reprecussions for the event in OoP? When does the "no magic 
out of school" rule take effect? (I know, we've debated this before) 
My guess is because of WHO the attackers were, we'll never hear it 
mentioned again. EVER. (I hope I'm wrong here. They HAVE to learn 
they're not above the rules. Snape shouldn't have to teach that 
alone.) So the trio and the twins get away with a terrible attack and 
drag UNCONSCIOUS BODIES out into the corridor just to get them out of 
the way while carrying on a NORMAL CONVERSATION. No mention of "Oh we 
shouldn't have done that!" or "I didn't know YOU were going to hex 
them too!" or even "Shouldn't we call for help?" These are supposed 
to be the GOOD GUYS? What *do* they do? Discuss the wonderful effects 
of their combined curses! Shades of "I see no difference" here. And 
yes, as much of a Snape fan as I am, I have to admit that because he 
is an adult in a position of responsibility his comment was worse. 
(Just like the Leaving Feast debacle) That, however does not 
leave "our heros" in the clear with me. Of course, they learned that 
these people have no feelings, they have no value and no worth (an 
oddly "slytherin" view of "the enemy" for our gryffs!) and they 
learned that where? Well for one, at the Leaving Feast in PS/SS! 
Taught by whom? Why by their venerable Headmaster, of course!