The Bloody Baron's identity

[Tom Wall <thomasmwall@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51495


Julie wrote:
The Bloody Baron seems to be a feared and 
respected ghost in the school. We haven't seen
a lot of any ghosts except Nearly Headless Nick, 
but we know that he would prefer to be called by 
his proper name, yet no one does this. The Fat
Friar seems to be a jolly ghost and friendly 
towards all the students. We haven't seen the 
Ravenclaw ghost in any sort of detail, although 
I think we see her when Harry is sneaking about 
in his invisibility cloak (he sees a tall
witch ghost passing him) Sorry, I don't have my 
book with me so I can't give page reference.

I reply:
You know, this has gotten me thinking about the 
nature of the "house" ghosts in particular (slightly
off your theory, but still relevant.)
 
I mean, first off, who would designate such a 
thing, anyways? Is this something that someone 
"decides," as in "house-ghost" is a position that 
needs filling ala the DADA job? Maybe the ghosts 
decide it for themselves?

In PS/SS, the fat friar is conversing with another 
ghost about Peeves, and they say:

"Forgive and forget, I say, we ought to give him a second chance -"
"My dear Friar, haven't we given Peeves all the chances he deserves? 
He gives us all a bad name and you know, he's not really even a 
ghost -" (PS/SS 115)

So this would indicate that the ghosts perhaps have *some* say over 
what goes on, although it could be argued that they're using a 
collective 'we' in the discussion as in 'we the residents of 
Hogwarts...' that would include the living staff as well.

Although then again, (and I know that Peeves isn't a ghost) in CoS, 
Filch talks about writing up a report on Peeves, and "We'll have 
Peeves out this time, my sweet -" (CoS 128)

Same sort of thing in GoF, when Filch finds the egg when Harry is 
roaming about, and says:

"You've gone and stolen a Triwizard clue, Peeves... Dumbledore'll 
have you out of here for this, you filthy, pilfering poltergeist..."
(GoF 468)

So this would indicate that Dumbledore also has some authority over 
Peeves, and maybe by association the ghosts as well? It also 
indicates that Filch's reports probably count for something, even 
against the ghosts.

And is it absolutely necessary for a ghost to have been a student of 
the house for which he/she is the designated ghost? We know from 
PS/SS that the Fat Friar *was,* in fact, a Hufflepuff student.

"Hope to see you in Hufflepuff!" said the Friar. "My old house, you 
know."  (PS/SS 116)

But from this, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that NHNick 
was a Gryffindor student, that the Grey Lady (whom you're right, we 
haven't been formally introduced to) was a Ravenclaw student, or that 
the Bloody Baron was a Slytherin student. But it's an interesting 
idea that they *could* have been. In fact, other than the Friar, I 
don't think I've heard any mention at all of whether or not any of 
the ghosts possessed any sort of magical abilities or were students 
or anything like that.


Julie wrote:
Anyway, my point is that the Bloody Baron is given a 
wide berth by all the other ghosts (even at the deathday 
party) and he never seems really happy or particularly 
interested in the students. (granted we haven't seen a 
whole lot of him and we don't know how he interacts with 
the slytherins) I was wondering what if the Bloody Baron 
is actually the ghost of Salazar Slytherin.

I reply:
Ooooh, that is SO interesting! I wonder... there's that odd bit about 
silver blood, which would suggest something to the effect of unicorn 
blood, and maybe a quest for immortality ala Voldemort, who was also 
a Slytherin. And why the Baron would be covered in unicorn blood is 
anyone's guess. I guess you could suggest that Slytherin, like 
Voldemort, maybe had immortality goals, although I don't think that 
there's anything in canon to support that.

And also, it makes me wonder why the other ghosts would be giving him 
berth at all. I mean, can one ghost hurt another? Do they have 
anything that could remotely be described as physical contact with 
each other? Peeves isn't a ghost, so the waddiwasi bit from Lupin 
really wouldn't be an applicable example, but NHNick's petrification 
by the basilisk. Now that's interesting... not that it's related to 
whether or not ghosts can do anything to each other.

Oh - at the deathday party, Sir Patrick Delaney-Podmore talks about 
games such as "head hockey," which would indicate that there's 
something akin to physical contact in the ghost-verse. I mean, the 
heads with which they're playing hockey would be non-corporeal, so 
some contact would be required, right?


Julie wrote:
1. He's feared and respected among all at Hogwarts (makes sense if 
he's a founding father right?)
2. He's the Slytherin ghost
3. Peeves is scared of him (who knows what he's threatened him with, 
maybe the Basilisk? It DID hurt NNN)
4. We don't know what happened to the founders, so maybe when the 
rift grew, Gryffindor and Slytherin fought to the death or something 
(grim, but possible) Slytherin then stayed to finish his work. When 
young Tom Riddle managed to make his way, well, the Bloody Baron was 
right there to guide him. But since the chamber wasn't able to stay 
open, his work is not finished and he's still around.

I reply:
Good thoughts, really, they get the imagination going. I've often 
wondered why Peeves would be so terrified of the Bloody Baron... I 
mean, Peeves isn't a ghost, technically, but it seems that he can be 
influenced by them one way or another.

An objection that comes to mind is that, since Hogwarts was founded 
circa 1000, there wouldn't be a title 'baron' quite yet, would there? 
Isn't that really something that comes later on in history. Not 
totally clear on it, but it seems appropriate, somehow. Although it 
could be countered by your observation that the baron prefers his 
real name - whatever that may be.

Regarding number four, two things:
-That's a great idea about the Baron helping Riddle. As ghosts, it 
would seem that they have tons of information about the school, 
although they would appear to be a resource that the students, at 
least the Gryffindors, don't really use. But the Slytherins, now 
that's interesting. It could very well be that the Baron helps them 
out with all sorts of stuff, although again, I don't think there's 
anything in canon to support that.

-I'd say that you might have lateral support from that interview with 
JKR (that I can't locate just now) in which she says that ghosts come 
back because they have unfinished business in the world. Well, you 
could posit that, if one of Slytherin's goals was to stop mudbloods 
from attending Hogwarts, and they're still attending, he could be 
said to have unfinished business.

-Tom