How many students [was Re: Random ideas]

[Scott Northrup]

No: HPFGUIDX 51732


> bboy_MN:
> Well, I'm not sure if I agree with the Idealist, Artisans, Guardians,
> and Rationals. I understand that the person who created this was
> working within a specific frame work, but how do Slytherins become
> Artisans? I would think that would be Hufflepuff; the craftsmen.

Ah, the title Artisan shouldn't really be taken literally.  Let me see if I
can come up with an explanation of why this guy categourized Slytherin as
"Artisans."  I actually do agree with this to an extent; like I said, my
main beef with the guy was that he claimed Gryffindor were Idealists, when
as far as I can tell, there aren't any Idealists in Gryffindor.

I figure if you really break it down, Slytherins are probably a mixture of
Rationals and Artisans, in whatever proportion these types appear in the
real world.

"Having the freedom to act on the spur of the moment, wherever and whenever
an opportunity arises is very important to SPs.  No chance is to be blown,
no opening missed, no angle overlooked--whatever or whoever might turn out
to be exciting, pleasurable, or useful is checked out for advantage."  (From
Dr. David Keirsey's "Please Understand Me II", Chapter 2)

Anyway, most Slytherins we see fit this profile.  However, most Slytherins
we've seen have little or no empathy for anyone else; which leads me to
believe that none of the Slytherins so far would have an expressed Feeling
characteristic; they all express a Thinking trait over a very, very subdued
Feeling trait (for more info, visit typelogic.com).

Actually, this explains why Slytherin would be smaller; the sorting Hat not
only selects for Artisans, but tends to select for Artisans with that are
Thinkers (note, a highly expressed Thinking trait doesn't imply
intelligence, only that they tend towards "tough-mindedness" over empathy,
which explains Crabbengoyle).

There may also be some Rationals in Slytherin; Rationals tend to share some
of the above mentioned qualities of Artisans.


> So let's turn this around, based on your own impression of the general
> nature of the four houses, how do you see there relative sizes?
>
> I think Hufflepuff would be the largest, these are the common working
> man. They still excel at what they do, but they make up the bulk of
> the population. Although, classes in the greenhouse would not seem to
> confirm my theory.
>
> Second largest would be Ravenclaw, the intellectuals. Hufflepuff are
> the master craftsmen, and tradesmen. Ravenclaw, in a sense, are the
> college graduates. They are smart, hardworking, and don't have time
> for petty nonesense like schoolboy rivalries. Both Hufflepuff and
> Ravenclaw have the potential to be very successful in life. Being a
> craftsman doesn't mean your aren't smart, and being an intellectual
> doesn't mean you don't understand the value of hard creative work.

I wouldn't think that there would be many "intellectuals," so I tend to
think of them as being the Rationals, but who knows.  We don't really have
any character examples from Ravenclaw, aside from Cho Chang, and obviously,
she's not nearly developed enough for me to be able to apply the
Myers-Briggs Temperment Indicator to her.  She could be any of the 16 types.


> Slytherin would be relatively small. These are uniquely ambitions
> people. People who want far more than a sucessful career. The want to
> control the world around them. They don't work for companies, they own
> companies. They run for political office. They are cunning, crafty,
> infinitely charming when it serves them, and know how to manipulate
> people to their advantage. They know how to play peoples weaknesses.

You might be interested, to know, that Bill Clinton, Patton, Elvis, and
Ghengis Khan were all SPs.

> Gryffindor would also be relatively small. If these people go into
> politics, they are known as great leaders; a cut above the rest. Not
> just weilding power, but supreme diplomats that are more interested in
> resolving conflict than profiting from it. I think they got this one
> right; Gryffindor's are idealistic. They also have a sense of right,
> and the courage to go against the tide, when they know it is the right
> think to do. These are rare individuals.
>

I mean Idealist strictly in a Keirsey sense; trust me, there are no clear
cut Idealists (NFs) in Gryffindor.  And some of the best leaders are
Rationals (Keirsey describes the Rational Method of Leading as "Visionary").
You might be interested to know, there has not been a single Idealist
President of the United State.  In fact, the only historical figure in a
leadership position that was an Idealist that I know of was Gandhi.
However, the percentage of Rational Presidents is quite a bit higher than
the percentage of Rationals in the general populace; Thomas Jefferson,
Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, to name a few (I know
someone will bring this up, so I'll just say it now; Nixon and Gerald Ford
were both Rationals as well, proving no one is perfect).

Idealists are great Diplomats, however.  Even the Introverted ones are still
good with people.

> In a sense, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw are every man. Where as Slytherin
> and Gryffindor are rare individuals
>

I'd agree with that, I guess.  I certainly think that there MUST be a
disproportionately high number of Hufflepuffs; I think that every time we
see Harry and Co. in a class with them, they only represent anywhere from a
quarter to a half of their year.  There may be canon to disprove this idea;
if there is, feel free to call me on it.


> My estimates come out the same, I just shifted the numbers to other
> houses.
>

As a math major (and a Rational, as is now *obvious*-- sorry for the bias
;), I'm really torn on the size issue.  It certainly seems like there's
evidence to support numbers anywhere from 250 to 1000+ students, and the
only number we know for fact is 1000, which definitely seems high at times.
I would guess there are about 750 students.

It would not suprise me, that if posed with this question again, JKR would
rehash her number of students.  She doesn't really strike me as a numbers
person.

-Scott
(who will precede to prove that the student body is a vector space, H, and
each house is a subspace of H.  Actually, I won't, but I'm in that mode;
Linear Algebra midterm in 35 hours or so.)

PS Sorry, it occurs to me that this post didn't have a lot to do with HP in
the end, at least not directly.