Objections to Magic Dishwasher - Shrieking Shack

[Melody <Malady579@hotmail.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51785

>Me on whether Dumbledore had planned the whole Pettigrew escape:
>If you just learned a loyal servant is running back to his master,
>and you also heard from you resident psychic that this will probably
>mean the stronger rebodiment of the said master, then would you be so
>relaxed as Dumbledore if you did not have a plan in mind already?

Amanda:
>Well, I think he does have a plan. He probably has several, based on
>several possible sequences of events, worked out on the basis of
>several years' study and soundly educated thought. It does not
>necessarily follow, though, that his plan is the Dishwasher.

You know.  I just found a hole in my logic before.  I am *so* sorry,
though slightly surprised no one else saw it.  Anyway--Dumbledore
never learned about Trelawney's prediction until after he skipped to
Lupin's office noon the next day.  It is then that Harry tells him.
It is then that Dumbledore "knows" what "will" happen.  He takes no
time to think over whether Trelawney is correct in this prediction.

Amusing there, isn't it?  How would he know *this* one brings her
total to two?  Seems he drew that conclusion mighty quickly.  Could he
have possibly wanted that to happen, so is glad to know his resident
psychic predicted it?  He surely relaxed then *knowing* his plan would
work.  At least...that bit of it.  That bit that just happened to be
the PoA goal of MD.

But back to my point, there are three possibilities of how Dumbledore
learned about Harry having a life dept.

1. Sirius.  Told him in the tower the night before.
2. Lupin.  It seems Dumbledore has already talked about things before 	
Harry came to Lupin's office the next morning.
3. Harry.  He told Dumbledore himself in Lupin's office after he told 	
him about the prediction.

Now 1 and 2 are plausible and give Non-MD!Dumbledore more time to
think it all over a bit more.  He still did not know of the prediction
until the office for sure, but the advantage of the life dept could be
working in his head already.

But if he learned of this life dept from Harry, then Dumbledore's
little mind must of gone into overdrive.  I doubt this is true though.
 Lupin and Black are well aware of what happened in the SS.  They know
that Harry saved Peter's life from certain death.  They would know
that more than Harry in fact.  They would of know they really *did*
intend to kill him.

So then this Non-MD!Dumbledore goes to Lupin's office pondering it
all.  Yes, the life dept could help, but there should be more on
Dumbledore's mind than that.  He should be wondering what to do about
this freed Peter.  And in that cloud, Dumbledore has little Harry
Potter tell him Trelawney's prediction and precisely what Peter *is*
going to do.

And Dumbledore does not even blink.

He does not act surprised, shocked, dumbfound, or even *twinkle*.  He
is just continuing with his quiet talking to Harry with a "mild
impressed" look on his face.  That is rather calm.  Even Harry himself
comments on how calmly Dumbledore took the news.  (PoA, Ch 22)  And
less then thirty seconds later, Dumbledore then says that this life
dept can be handy?  When do you think he realized that?  Between the
telling Harry *he* was not responsible for sending Peter to Voldemort,
or between the time Dumbledore was telling Harry he did a noble thing.
 Both of which were Harry's prescribed tasks under MD.  :)

So as I see it, Dumbledore already knew about the ramifications of all
that happened in the SS given that he would have to draw those
conclusions very quickly in Lupin's office.  The man is a genius, but
come on.  He has emotions.  How could the information that "the
servant of the dark lord will help his master regain power" not bring
a rise out of anyone?  He truly did not know the prediction before, so
that "mild impressed" look could be that he is impressed that his MD
prescribed plan *is* going to work after all.

Kind of goes along with that "twinkle," doesn't it?


>Pip on animagi:
>The world is full of big, black, dogs. I cheerfully admit that
>they're not normally found in hospital wings, but it could be the
>Weasley family pet for all Snape, McGonagall and Fudge know. [They do
>tend to make pets of animagi, after all]
>
>Amanda(aside):
>Explain that last? The only animagus pet that I know of is Peter, and
>it's not known that he's an animagus. Who else has a pet animagus?

Isn't it speculated here that Mrs. Figg's cats are all animagi?  And
also isn't Mrs. Norris supposed to also be stuck in an animagus form?
 A spell or potion gone bad and all.

Besides, Pip's point was that those in the hospital would not question
the Weasleys having an animagus pet.  Ok, Fudge might, but Snape and
McG wouldn't, so if the dog suddenly changed, they would not be surprised.


>Tom:
>But it doesn't *matter.* Dumbledore can *still* be a spymaster, and
>he can still be working behind the scenes to send misinformtion to
>Lord Voldemort.  All of the basics of Magic Dishwasher can remain
>intack without assuming that Dumbledore had any control over events
>in the Shrieking Shack.
>
>Amanda:
>It can? I've never been able to follow the convolutions of MD,
>myself; it seemed very elegantly and painstakingly constructed, but
>very tenuous on some points, and it goes against what I have
>perceived as the nature of some of the players involved.

No.  It can't.

The unified post will be up eventually, and I guess I am saying, read
it all then to see how it is all so well weaved together.  There is no
MD without the SS as MD stands right now.  Pip reserves the right to
adjust her theory as she sees fit after OoP.


Amanda:
>I think my own problem with MD is not the theory per se. It is that I
>perceive you have built it like a monolith on the shore to withstand
>the tempests and tsunami, and view challenges as attempts to break
>it.  I avoid MD because for me, this isn't about breaking monoliths,
>or convincing, or winning, or having a "better" argument, or any of
>that, and I know any attempts to discuss MD would be met as if I were
>doing all of those and more. The Wolf is protective of his territory.

When I first came to this site, I learned real fast that it was Pip
and Grey Wolf against all the other listees.  They alone defended with
nail and teeth to keep this theory afloat, and it took nail and teeth
to do it.  All the other listees seemed *bent* on sinking it.  I
always wondered why.  Why this theory?  I sat back and watched to see
why.  I never learned.  All I knew is that MD is an underdog in my
mind.  It has been hit from every angle, and it has survived.  No one
but Pip and Grey would stick up for it.

So when I saw PRESSURE COOKER emerge and then Pippin aimed a canon to
destroy MD, well I jumped on board.  From my perspective, the other
listees saw MD as the prize to break.  The one theory in TBAY that
everyone is just dying to see proven wrong.  Oh and there *will* be a
party if it is I am sure.

How do you think that makes us feel?  We get defensive not because no
one else can see things from the chosen perspective, but because they
don't want the perspective to exist at all.

I did not then, nor do I now, see MD as this menacing theory that is
undestroyable.  I see it as a theory that deserves to be defended so
strongly and fiercely because everyone seems to want it to fall hard
and flat.

And yes - if people say things like:
>And besides, I wonder why so much stock is set by this analysis,
>not that it's not creative Pip, please don't take me the wrong way
>here.

What other way are we to take it?  That is an insult to us since we do
take so much stock in it.  Maybe we have invested too much, but when
you fight for what you believe in, your heart is in it.  I doubt
anyone here would say Pip, Grey Wolf, and I do not have heart for the
little appliance.  We do love it dearly, when no one else will.


Melody