Number of students

Fri Feb 7 05:57:28 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 51790

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Grey Wolf <greywolf1 at j...>"
<greywolf1 at j...> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> > ... Some people are speculating a ratio of 40/40/10/10.
> > If that's true then those ratios reflect the actuall numbers; 40
> > Hufflepuff to 10 Gryffindors. This would account for 600 to 700
> > students ....
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> Grey Wolf:
> 
> First things first, I don't buy that theory of 40/40/10/10. The
> numbers are a bit too separate for my tastes, ...
> - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> bboy_mn/Steve originally said:
>  
> > Which brings up the question, why don't we see all these extra
> > Hufflepuffs in Herbology? I can only speculate, but it's possible 
> > the the Hufflepuffs in Harry's class are the 'overflow'.
> > - - - - - - - - - - - -

> Grey Wolf again:
> 
> If there are 40 students in  Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff, who are the 
> overflow? I mean, we know that lessonss are in groups of "about 20".
> For example, in herbology. ....
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

bboy_mn respond anew:
You first mistake is thinking that Harry's class sizes are the
standard size, or that they represent the capacity of a give
classroom. We know that there are 20 cauldrons, but only because it is
assumed that there are 20 students. The next potions class may have 35
students, in which case there would be 35 cauldrons in the classroom.
You see my point? There is nothing that says the maximum capacity or
the standard capacity of the Potions classroom is defined by Harry's
class. 

Next problem, is using the EXACT number 40. The 40/40/10/10 is an
attempt at ILLUSTRATING the relative size variation based on the
characteristics of the individual houses. It could be 50/30/12/8 or
some other combination (35%/35%/15%/15%; 40%/30%/20%/10%; ...). But
even these new numbers still illustrate the point that we are trying
to make, and that is Slytherin and Gryffindor personality types are
more rare that common Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - 

> Grey Wolf continues with a mathematical analysis:
> 
> Now, let's do maths: 700 students, about 20 students/group, 35 
> groups. One hours/week of Herbology: 35 hours, 5 hours/day, fits 
> barely - but fits.
> - - - - - - - - - - - -

BBOY_MN NOTE: [(40 * 7 * 2 [H/R] + (10 * 7 * 2 [G/S]) = 700 students
but assumes perfect adherence to the ratios which is not likely. Using
my own school as an example, there could be plus/minus variation in
class size of 33%.]

Yes, luckily it fits, but it's flawed in thinking that Harry's class
size is the standard size. What about 1 Hufflepuff of 30 and one
Hufflepuff/Gryffindor of 20? One Ravenclaw of 30 and one
Ravenclaw/Slytherin of 20. Now we have 4 classes per year * 7 years
which is flawed in the assumption that Herbology is take ever year for
7 years. ((4 * 7 = 28) 28 one hours classes per week.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

> Potions: you say that there could be as many as 40 students in the 
> class, although when Harry is there with Slytherin there are only 
> 20 of them. That means 3 groups per year: (S/G), (H), & (R). 
> 3 groups/year * 4 lectures/week&group * 7 years ... = 84 hours . 
> ...  add .. privateStudying!6th&7th years...: 3*4*5 = 60 hours/week.
> 12 hours/day. 
> 
> DADA: ..., would those 40 Ravenclaws/Hufflepuffs take their DADA 
> in one group ? ... Let's say they divide the big groups in two. 
> That's 6 groups/year * 2 hours/week&group * 5 years = 60 hours 
> ....
>
> ...edited...
> 
> Hope that helps,
>
> Grey Wolf

bboy_mn finishes with:

As I said in my last post, "... the only conclusion that I can see 
is that there is no definitive conclusion that can be reached."

You are calculating numbers knowing that the numbers can never truly
be reconciled; at this stage of the game, that makes any calculations
pointless. We can't get into specifics on this issue because we start
 out (at least now) knowing that the specifics will never add up, so
we are left with generalities. What does the general size of the
school appear to be? 280 the low calculation is a tiny school. Why
have this monsterous building of which a great deal is unused when you
are only going to have 280 students. My home town school was about 300
students K->12. It was a very small building compared to this giant
seven story castle. (The main building Jr/Sr High was 2 stories and
the grade school was 1 story.) So it doesn't add up, and that is the
only conclusion we can reach, but my impression of the size of the
school tells me it's probably between 400 and 700, and in my book that
qualifies as a school that could be put in the 1,000 student catagory.
Again, my belief is that 1,000 doesn't define the size of the school
but indicates the general size catagory that the school would be
placed in.

So, I still like this new theory, it expands the school beyond the
minimum of 280 with a reasonable stretch of logic while at the same
time does not attempt to resolve the number to exactly 1,000. I think
it's based on a reasonable assumption. It is more likely that certain
house personalities generate a large number of students while others
are small, than it is to assume exactly equal proportions. 

So, in the end, the answer is that it can't be answered, so we are
left with generalities and assumptions. I'll say again, that JKR has
no obligation to make these numbers add up. All she has to do, is make
you believe it when you read it. She certainly did that for me.

Just a few thoughts.

bboy_mn