Hermione, heroines and love interests; Ginny

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 52337

Hi --

Pippin said:

<<<<I don't see that Ginny has to join the Trio on all their adventures 
or, heaven forbid! supplant Hermione in the reader's affections, 
in order for the reader to accept her as the right person for Harry.>>>>

I don't either.  But, you must admit, Ginny's page time has been *decreasing* (or, without engaging in LOONy word counts, I presume that GoF is either slightly less or about the same as her references/dialogue in PoA, on a proportionate scale certainly).  There could be subtle development of her as a character, without building her up into a member of the Trio or making her more important than Hermione.  There hasn't been though, IMO.  I agree with Judy who said we know far more about Bill and Charlie than we do about Ginny.  
 
<<<<I also very much want Hermione to be happy. I just don't see a 
romance with Harry as a necessary ingredient for her 
happiness. Even if she wants him, it doesn't mean she'd be 
happy if they were together. "The trouble is, humans do have a 
knack for choosing precisely those things..." <g>>>>>>>>>>

Well, you see, that's how I view Ron and Hermione though.  <g>  I think they'd be an utter disaster paired romantically, and if it occurs in OoP, that's *exactly* what I'll argue.  I don't see a romance with Ron as a necessary ingredient for Hermione's happiness either.  I think she should have several romances, so that when she realizes who Mr. Right is, she'll know it.  Maybe that first romance ought to be with Ron.  I think it might be, if he's successful anyway.  But, I don't think it'll be her one and only romance (excluding Krum, since we don't know to what extent there was a reciprocal romantic relationship so far).  

<<<<<Eh? The girl not only knows it's silly to be obsessed with 
someone's looks and reputation, she can poke fun at herself for 
it.  Do "really divine" heroes have eyes like a fresh pickled toad? 
The irony is so thick you could spread it on a bagel. ;-) 

When everybody is genuinely afraid that Harry is the Heir of 
Slytherin, Ginny reminds everyone, EVERYONE, that he's only 
human, and does it in a way that calls Draco's malice on her, not 
Harry.>>>>>>>>>>>

Eh?  Really?  Aren't you ascribing a fair bit of complex plotting and thought to an 11-yr old girl with a big crush?  I somehow don't think Ginny was intending either to poke fun at herself *or* remind Harry and everyone else of his humanity *or* draw Draco's attention on herself.   

Judy said:
>>>There is no way she could possibly know that Draco Malfoy 
would respond in the way he did or even that he'd be present 
when the valentine was delivered.<<<

Pippin said: <<<Everybody at Hogwarts knows that Draco Malfoy and Harry hate each other, and that Draco teases Harry about being famous. 
Draco also keeps up with the Harry news, so even if he wasn't 
there for the valentine, he'd hear about it.>>>>>>>

Yes, but your original point, Pippin, was that Ginny had deliberately taken Draco's malice on herself -- that she engineered the situation.  Or at least I think that's how Judy and I both interpreted your argument.  

<<<<<As it is, Harry's only mortified until he
hears what the valentine says. Then he's able to laugh about it, 
and even puts up with  hearing "His eyes are as green" more 
than once before he gets tired of it and goes to bed.>>>>>>

Amy Z already responded, and I have to agree.  That's not how I remember it at all.  I think it's perfectly obvious that Harry *is* mortified and only laughs as a measure of self-defense.  He is definitely "putting up" with hearing it over & over -- he obviously wishes they'd stop and he finally gives up on them tiring of singing it and goes to bed. 

<<<<As for Ginny knowing Harry beyond the superficial, how can she? 
He's never given her the chance. We're privy to his inmost 
thoughts, she's not.>>>>>>>>>

Don't you mean that *Rowling* hasn't given her the chance?  <eg>   

Judy responded with:

<<<<Harry spent two full weeks at her house in CoS, and more time 
during GoF.  Of course she was able to observe things about him that 
had nothing to do with his looks or his famous scar.  She could have 
learned plenty was she interested in who he was as a person.  From a 
strictly canon point of view, Ginny doesn't see Harry as a three-
dimensional human being.>>>>>>>

I agree.  I think Ginny is still obsessed with "The Boy Who Lived."  She had *no* interest in Harry at the train station *until* she heard her brothers say that he was Harry Potter.  *Then* she wanted to go gawk at him.  After seeing him not once, not at all, again (except perhaps a brief glimpse when the Hogwarts Express returned with the students in June), she "talked about him all summer."  At the beginning of PoA, Harry reckons that Ginny refuses to look at him and is blushing because he saved her the previous year.  I just see no canon support for any change in Ginny's attitude -- there's no evidence that she does see him as he really is.  

<<<Ginny has her cute and spunky moments.>>>>>

You're only barely able to use the plural form there, aren't you?  I count exactly 2.  The moment in the bookshop in CoS and the pre-Yule Ball scene in GoF.  Am I missing some cute & spunky Ginny moments?  

Penny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]