Cho; It's time to defend Ginny! (some SHIP)

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 52371

Hi --

> Pippin wrote: 

> > I wonder if the  urge to put down Ginny may be a bit like the urge  
to create Evil!Cho, rooted in the readers' desire to consider Harry  
romantically available rather than on her portrayal in the text 
itself.> 

Jenny said: <<<Okay, I think Pippin nailed it here.  I could never understand any criticism of Cho and while I agree that Ginny is not a developed character, I can't criticize her either.  Really, I think Ginny is a nice kid.  In fact, I think she has been since we first met her.>>>>>>>

Well, not being sure if Pippin was aiming her comment at anyone in particular, but since I've been involved in some Ginny discussions lately, I feel compelled to defend myself a bit here.  I'm most certainly not anti-Cho, and in fact, didn't follow the recent Evil!Cho thread because I *don't* dislike her.  I don't think the H/C ship is going anywhere (too much tragedy and I would imagine weird feelings on both sides).......but I most definitely don't dislike her.  There was some anti-Cho feeling in the reasonably brief post-PoA and pre-GoF days within the fandom, but I don't recall taking part.  You can see these assumptions about Cho (and about a Harry/Cho dating relationship in GoF that was widely expected to happen) reflected in Lori Summers' popular H/H fanfic, "The Paradigm of Uncertainty," of which 10 chapters were written pre-GoF.  But, I personally think that Cho was shown to be a very nice person in GoF.  

I do think that Maria has a very valid point that there are lots of reasons other than wanting Harry to be "unattached" or attached to one particular female that might compell someone to dislike a character.  I think Elkins really made some fabulous points in her post, and I think it's a shame to see some of the complex interactions between readers and text derided or written off.  

Jim said:

<<<<Some of those with kinder intent say Cho will never overcome her grief over Cedric and her association of Harry with it enough to get involved with Harry.  This theory denies the fact Cho is fifteen or sixteen and ought to have the resilience that goes with that age.>>>>>>>>>

If it was merely a matter of Cho's first boyfriend having died tragically, then, yes, I would agree with you.  I think she will certainly overcome her grief and move on with her life.  But, because her boyfriend died in circumstances that involve Harry, I just don't see her being able to move past that barrier, assuming that Harry would want to move beyond that barrier.  I think the real barrier to Harry/Cho would be Harry though.  It's a double-whammy, see.  It's not just Cho needing to overcome grief over Cedric's death.  It's Cedric dying in circumstances that Harry feels incredible guilt over.  Yes, Cho will work through her grief, and Harry will eventually come to terms with his guilt (we hope!).  But, I still say that there will always be a wall there that would prevent a romance between those 2 people.

Shifting to Ginny:

As for Ginny, I'm not anti-Ginny.  I am anti-H/G *at this point* ...... because really, as many ardent R/H shippers will attest, there's just not much to get behind at this point.  I definitely don't know enough about Ginny to judge whether she'd be a good match for Harry.  Harry doesn't think so at this point.  At this point, all I see also is that Ginny has a huge crush on Harry, that may, IMHO, be largely based on his celebrity rather than his person.  

David said:

I quoted Pippin:
> <<<<As for Ginny knowing Harry beyond the superficial, how can 
she? 
> He's never given her the chance. We're privy to his inmost 
> thoughts, she's not.>>>>>>>>>

and replied
> 
> Don't you mean that *Rowling* hasn't given her the chance?  <eg>

David responded with: <<<I have to say I see it as Harry, myself.  It is one of the few ways that he irritates me as a character, how he manages to keep Ginny at a distance.  Her approach to him is not that of Colin Creevey (more on that below) and while he doesn't treat her with the brusqueness reserved for Colin, he does IMO shut her out.  He acquiesces in Ron's dismissal in POA and apparently does nothing to respond to her 
overtures such as the get-well card.>>>>>>>>>

But, Harry is acting under Rowling's pen (or keyboard).  I'm not sure what you're getting at David - though I definitely agree that Harry keeps Ginny at a distance, very definitely.  Again though, there are ways that we the readers could have been given enough information about Ginny to be in her corner and care about her more than superficially, even if JKR chose to keep Harry and Ginny apart for plot purposes.  There's a very subtle build-up of the Ron crush on Hermione for example.  There's no build-up necessary to Ginny's crush -- it's just fact and isn't the least bit subtle.  But, having Ginny be more than just a star-struck sister of his best friend could have been done, and might have foreshadowed H/G.  For now, I see no H/G foreshadowing and even completely the opposite really!

Jenny went on to say: <<<Ginny's crush on Harry: She's what, 10 years old when he first stays at the Burrow?  How do we expect her to behave?>>>>

About like she did!  I have no quarrel with the depiction of her at the Burrow.  I think though that the fact that she's been "talking about him all summer," when she can have only laid eyes on him no more than twice and had, as best we know, *no* interaction with him, is indicative that she has a celebrity-related crush at that stage.

<<<<Even Hermione is guilty of superficial attractions and she is usually 
known to think things through quite rationally.  Ginny's crush on 
Harry is, at least, directed towards someone who is also (IMO), a nice 
kid.>>>>>>>>>>

But, see above -- Ginny doesn't know that he's a nice kid when she develops her crush on him.  Now her crush may be sustained based on her observations and interactions ...... but there's not much textual support to say that this is or isn't the case.

<<<I haven't seen a single thing in the series that paints Ginny as a bad 
person.>>>>>>>

Me either!  [Though I do confess that Judy's note about us not witnessing Ginny's sorting has spurred some thinking on my end, more wondering *why* we didn't see Ginny's sorting, and the fact that we didn't is highlighted in the text with Ron's remark "I wanted to see my sister being sorted!".... But I don't think she's *evil,* no!]

<<<Of course, I am also biased because I was the girl who always had the 
crushes.  I want Ginny to win one for me.>>>>>>>>>>

Ah yeah, me too!  By all accounts, I should be an ardent H/G shipper!  Except, again, I've no idea if Ginny would be the right person for Harry or not.  Hermione, OTOH, I know and love and can see her paired happily with Harry.  Ginny is a non-entity at this point though, and as Judy said, many readers seem to be filling in the blanks for Ginny with their own thoughts/wishes.  

Jim said:

<<<I frankly get impatient with those who criticize characters for acting
their age.  As Jenny says, Ginny's ten years old when she forms her
first crush on Harry, and acts like it. We don't see much of her, but
she's always kind and loyal when we do.>>>>>>>

Well, one of my points has always been that Ginny *isn't* acting her age in much of the canon descriptions of her!  Yes, her crush is an accurate depiction of a crush for a girl her age (but, again, it's just a *crush* ...... it's not based on anything really, which makes the whole "it's *obvious* that Harry will pair up with Ginny thing very annoying to me).  

But, if you compare Ginny to members of the Trio in the previous book, you'll find Ginny's characterization to be really off.  Well, maybe let's compare oranges to oranges and not compare Ginny to Harry or Ron.  Let's just compare Ginny's behavior and dialogue in CoS with Hermione in PS/SS.  Or, compare PoA Ginny with CoS Hermione.  In each case, Ginny appears to me to have been characterized as drastically younger than she is chronologically speaking.  This is glaringly true with PS/SS, where I would never have imagined that she would be 10 yrs old!  This isn't Ginny's "fault" per se; I just find Rowling's characterization of her to be very odd really.  

Jim said:

<<<A corollary that you see in fanon is pairing Ginny with the likes of
Draco Malfoy. For Ginny's sake I'd rather feed her to the giant squid,
but all of the anti-Ginny anti-Cho stuff is done for the same purpose:
to get them out of the way.>>>>>>>

Well, I'm not much on the D/G pairing myself, unless you're talking about the fanon incarnations of both characters (and I think it unlikely we'll see *both* Draco & Ginny undergo a drastic enough transformation in canon to make this workable).  But, there is that Romeo/Juliet appeal in the pairing for some members of the fandom, which has little or nothing to do with getting them (or Ginny specifically) "out of the way."  In other words, I know there are members of the fandom who support this pairing and could care less who Harry ends up with!  

Penny

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