Minding your Manors

[Ali <Ali@zymurgy.org>]

No: HPFGUIDX 52716

Manawydan wrote:

>> If it was huge, it wouldn't have been called a manor! Among the 
19th century English aristocracy, it was the smaller landowners 
(the squires)who would have lived in manors. A house would have
 been much bigger than a manor. <<


Steve Bboy responded:-

<<Addtionally note that by definition a 'manor house' is a mansion, 
but I would hardly call most mansions a 'house' as a defining term.

<snip>

 This is how I see Malfoy's house/manor/mansion. Regardless of what
your definition is, I think Malfoy live in a mansion with significant
grounds, but not enough grounds to qualify as as estate or a true 
manor. >>


I reply:-
 
The origins of the term "manor" goes back to the Feudal System of the 
Middle Ages.

A manor was originally an  English territorial unit, and was either 
the area over which a Feudal lord had direct control, or was able to 
exact fees over.

There are many Manor Houses and Mansions still remaining in Britain 
(these terms are indeed synonymous). However, over the passage of 
time, many of these will have lost their land. Some, built over the 
original manors, are manors in name only.

In terms of the difference between "Manor"  and "House" which 
Manawyan has mentioned, I think the key thing to notice is the 
capital letter at the front of house.  Going back to the Feudal 
System, Manawydan is alluding to the differences between nobles who 
would have owned Estates with Houses on them,  and lords would have 
owned Manors with Mansions on them. – a quick check on the internet 
has thrown up further confusions of these terms, as I have read that 
knights (squires) were the lords of the manor and also that they owed 
their allegiance to the Lord of the Manor...Given that a lot of these 
words are actually used interchangeably these days, expect to be 
confused.

 My understanding (and I don't mind being corrected) is that the 
nobles (barons) were tenants-in-chief, manor-holders were under-
tenants to whom a varying numbers of knights – or squires – owed 
their allegiance. Manors would have varied greatly in size, and 
probably a lot of Manor Houses would have been referred to locally 
as "The House". Feudalism in England died out in the 16th Century.


Jo Serenadust asked:

<< This may be a US/UK difference, but since I live in a house, I'm 
 having a very hard time believing that it's bigger than the Malfoy 
 manor. Surely the squirarchy (I love this term!)would still be
 living on a fairly grand scale. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding 
 what you  wrote, but wouldn't a manor still be quite large and 
impressive compared to say, Privet Drive (and certainly The Burrow!)?
>>

I also live in a house, and unfortunately, it would never have been 
seen as a "House" in that sense, although it was built in the 
Nineteenth Century. So, yes, I quite agree we are meant to assume 
that the Malfoy's House is a cut above the average.

Going back to canon, and what exactly we can expect Malfoy's house to 
look like, I think that we can reasonably expect it to be fairly 
substantial. Anything else is entirely open to individual 
interpretation. I suppose that the way Lucius asks for his Dark goods 
to be picked up from the manor in CoS, emphasises his worth and 
certainly his view about his property. Both Lucius and Draco sneer 
about other people's homes (The Burrow and Hagrid's House)again 
pushing us to the idea that their "manor" is grander.

On a slightly different tack, it may be significant that the Malfoys 
have a French sounding surname. They could perhaps owe their name and 
property to the Norman Invasion in 1066, after which time William the 
Conqueror gave out land to Norman Followers. Old landed gentry indeed.

Ali

(Who apologises for the OT veer of this post, but felt forced to 
explain the feudal origins of the Malfoy's humble manor)