Blackmail Revisited

Sat Feb 22 23:26:41 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 52719

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, GulPlum <hp at p...> wrote:
> At 18:40 21/02/03 , Steve <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> >Since the subject of Rite Skeeter has come up again, so has the
> >subject of Blackmail, but I think many people have a warped idea of
> >what Blackmail is. Blackmail is a crime of theft; a form of 
> >stealing.
> >
> >Blackmail says, give me what I want even though it doesn't belong 
> >to me, or else.

GulPlum responds:
> 
> Sorry, Steve, but that is a distortion of any definition of
> blackmail, and  certainly of the legal one (in both the UK and US).
>
> 
> Extortion can be summarised as "If you don't do X, I will do Y". 
> ... and blackmail, in  which the usual form of Y is "I will tell 
> people something about you which you don't want them to know". 

bboy_mn seizes this opportunity to be a smartass:

So... "Give me back my crayon, or I'm telling Mom", would fall under
the heading of blackmail then?

-end this part-

GulPlum continues:
> 
> On to canon. The fact that Bagman has illegally (or at least, 
> dishonourably) refused to pay Gred & Forge their winnings does not
> make blackmailing him into paying up appropriate. ...edited... 
> 

bboy_mn:

I don't think the twins were engaged in a conscious attempt to
blackmail Bagman. What they were doing is debating how strongly they
could word their letter and still be within reasonable bounds. It was
clear that Bagman was not playing fair, and when you are confronted by
someone like that, you generally make it clear that you too can play
hardball if it comes to that. It's more of a warning than a threat. 

So as they accend the staircase to the owlery, Fred and George have a
disagreement about whether or not they have gone too far. They are
not, as far as I can see, plotting to go 'too far'. 

I could see the twins acting within the bounds of the law in ... how
shall I say this ... following through on their warning. If Bagmen
hadn't paid the twin, from my perspective, could have pursued common
legal methods to regain their money. In doing so, that would have
exposed Bagman. I could see that as the nature of the warning.
Something along the lines of 'If we have to pursue this through legal
channel that won't do much for your reputation. Maybe it's best if we
settle this now before it goes that far'. We skirting along the edges
of techincal definitions here, but I find it hard to believe that
telling someone to pay up or you will take them to court (PUBLIC
court) being interpreted as blackmail. I used the example of the bank
saying, pay us the money you owe us, or we are repossessing your car.
Isn't that a threatening attempt to force you to pay??

So, while I have to acknowledge that I may have been a bit off in my
definition of blackmail, I still say that the twins weren't acting
with criminal intent. They COULD, as I pointed out, have been warning
Bagman that he would suffer negative consequences if they pursued
redress of grievances in a public forum, and that warning could be
considered in a grey area which is why Fred & George were debating it.

-end this part-

GulPlum closes with:
> The authorial voice on Hermione is altogether more complicated.
> Actually, it's not so much about blackmail but kidnapping. ...
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the small blackmail element is really a forced
> quid pro quo, rather than straight blackmail. Hermione and the team
> have just as much to lose as Rita does.
> 
> ... Skeeter has already devalued Hermione's credibility over the 
> year, and ... a couple of articles about how flaky Hermione is ...,
> and ... any threat on Hermione's part ... would be meaningless. 
> We should also remember that Malfoy knows all about the 
> kidnap/blackmail which isn't particularly clever.
> 
> As it happens, I have a feeling that Rita just might call Hermione's
bluff...
> 
> --
> GulPlum AKA Richard, who is beginning(?) to ramble...

bboy_mn:

Rita is a time bomb of nuclear proportion. Farther up in this thread I
posted a link to an old thread in which I listed all the great 'chance
of a lifetime' story elements that Rita has and contrasted them to the
one 'I know your an animagus' element. Rita, as far as I can see, is
holding all the aces, and Hermione is left with very little. 

What could the penalty be for being an unregistered animagus? I'm
guessing a little negative publicity, a small fine, and having to
register. So Hermine isn't threatening Rita with very much. The worst
part would be that Rita's little beetle secret would be out, and it
would be harder but still not impossible to use her bug form to spy on
people. Moral of that story is, alway fumigate before you hold a
secret meeting.

As far as I can see, Hermione has nothing and Rita is sitting on the
story of the century. Hummmmm..... I wonder how that will turn out??

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboy_mn